Secret #81: Asking for Help with Dr. Jill Stoddard
Recommended Episodes
Why is asking for help so hard?
For many people, needing support feels like failure. Whether it's therapy, medication, weight loss surgery, or asking others for assistance, we often carry the belief that we should be able to do everything on our own.
In this candid conversation, Dr. Jill Stoddard shares her lifelong struggle with body image, dieting, and shame. She discusses the decision to pursue weight loss surgery, the judgment she faced afterward, and why society often labels support as "cheating."
Together, Chris, Emma, and Jill unpack the complicated intersection of weight, identity, appearance, values, and cultural expectations. They explore the role of uncertainty, discomfort, self-compassion, and psychological flexibility in creating lasting change.
Ultimately, this conversation isn't really about weight loss—it's about giving ourselves permission to ask for help, challenge shame, and pursue the life we want without needing anyone else's approval.
Key Takeaways
Asking for help is not weakness—it is often wisdom.
Weight loss tools, medications, and surgery are not "cheating."
Shame often drives unhealthy relationships with food and body image.
Values provide a more sustainable path than willpower alone.
Learning to tolerate discomfort is essential for long-term change.
The goal isn't perfection—it's psychological flexibility.
We can support others without judging the choices they make for their bodies.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Introduction to Dr. Jill Stoddard
02:18 Choosing weight loss surgery
04:53 The stigma of "taking the easy way out"
07:34 Patriarchy, body ideals, and body positivity
12:25 Health, strength, and quality of life
15:18 Values that make exercise sustainable
17:37 Is wanting to look good okay?
21:03 Aging, appearance, and self-acceptance
24:16 Empowerment versus appearance
25:48 Toward moves versus away moves
27:18 Why we should leave other people's bodies alone
31:20 Using the scale as data, not judgment
35:18 Food is everywhere: modern challenges
36:13 Cravings, willingness, and distress tolerance
36:58 Uncertainty and relapse
40:10 Getting comfortable being uncomfortable
43:10 Outcome independence and long-term success
44:43 Permission, bias, and self-compassion
More about dr. jill stoddard
Jill Stoddard is passionate about sharing science-backed ideas from psychology to help people thrive. She is a psychologist, writer, TEDx speaker, award-winning teacher, peer-reviewed ACT trainer, and co-host of the popular Psychologists Off the Clock podcast. Dr. Stoddard is the author of three books: The Big Book of ACT Metaphors: A Practitioner’s Guide to Experiential Exercises and Metaphors in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy; Be Mighty: A Woman’s Guide to Liberation from Anxiety, Worry, and Stress Using Mindfulness and Acceptance; and Imposter No More: Overcome Self-doubt and Imposterism to Cultivate a Successful Career. Her writing has also appeared in Psychology Today, Scary Mommy, Thrive Global, The Good Men Project, and Mindful Return. She regularly appears on podcasts and as an expert source for various media outlets. She lives in Newburyport, MA with her husband, two kids, and disobedient French Bulldog.
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[00:00:00]
[00:00:41] Meet Dr Jill Stoddard
[00:00:41] Emma Waddington: Welcome to Life's Dirty Little Secrets. I'm Emma Waddington.
[00:00:45] Chris McCurry: And I'm Chris McCurry, and today we are absolutely delighted to welcome Dr. Jill Stoddard. Jill is a clinical psychologist, TEDx speaker, three-time book author, and the host of Psychologist Off [00:01:00] the Clock, which for those of you who don't know, is the number one clinical psychology podcast in the world, if not the universe. Her books include The Big Book of ACT Metaphors, Be Mighty, and Impostor No More. They've been translated into more than a dozen languages. She lives in Newburyport, Massachusetts, with her husband, two kids, and a disobedient French bulldog. Jill's work centers on a radical idea that psychological discomfort isn't a sign something's gone wrong, but it's a sign that you're right where you're meant to be, at the intersection of caring and challenge. Almost five years ago, Jill had gastric bypass surgery. She lost ninety pounds. She has kept that weight off, which the data tell us is the hardest part. She's accomplished that using the same psychological flexibility tools that she teaches her clients. So this conversation is about weight, but more than that, it's a conversation about what it [00:02:00] means to ask for help with your body or any problem, for that matter, in a culture that treats asking for help as cheating or a sign of weakness or dependence. Jill, welcome to Life's Dirty Little Secrets.
[00:02:13] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Thank you, Chris. Thanks, Emma. Thanks for having me. It's so nice to be back with you two.
[00:02:17] Chris McCurry: It's a pleasure.
[00:02:18] Choosing Weight Loss Surgery
[00:02:18] Chris McCurry: So, you know, we've been told our whole lives that asking for help is the easy way out and you didn't shrink from that. You asked for help, and you got the help, and it was very successful for you. So can you tell us about coming to terms with that? Did you struggle with that at all, or was it a fairly easy decision to you know, get the treatment that you felt would be helpful to you?
[00:02:41] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Once I discovered that it was appropriate for me, it was fairly easy. So I, I grew up with parents who called me Tubby, Little Tubette, Tubby Tubby Two By Four who couldn't fit through the kitchen door. So no surprise, I went on to develop, you know, a lifetime of food and body image issues. And I remember you know, sneaking [00:03:00] food when my parents weren't home, because if I ate in front of them, you know, they would sort of shame me.
[00:03:05] Dr. Jill Stoddard: They would say, "Tubby," you know, if I was eating a snack. And so I wouldn't eat in front of them. And, you know, it just led to really unhealthy eating behaviors. And I did the typical, you know, yo-yo dieting my whole entire life. I would lose weight and then gain it all back and then some, and then lose weight and gain it all back and then some And I was working with a client not on anything related to weight loss.
[00:03:30] Dr. Jill Stoddard: He was
[00:03:31] Dr. Jill Stoddard: depressed and anxious, and he had gone to a medical doctor and was very upset because that doctor suggested he should get gastric bypass surgery.
[00:03:41] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And as the therapy session, he was just kind of venting about how it offended him that the doctor said this, but I sort of tuned out for a second. I'll admit, I did.
[00:03:51] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I came right back, but for a second because I thought, "You're not fat enough to have gastric bypass surgery. That doesn't
[00:03:57] Dr. Jill Stoddard: make any sense." And in that [00:04:00] next beat, I thought, "Oh my gosh, like if he's an appropriate candidate for this surgery, maybe I am too," because I always thought it was something that only like very, very morbidly obese people did.
[00:04:12] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So I just started doing a deep dive. I read, I think, three books in three weeks you know, looked up research articles, just got as much information as I possibly could. And once I was educated it actually wasn't that difficult to make the decision. It really did feel like it was finally the right thing for me since dieting really doesn't work.
[00:04:34] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Of course, weight loss surgery, people still gain weight back from weight loss surgery too. It's much more successful than traditional dieting, but you can still gain the weight back. And so I, I knew that I was gonna have a lot of work to do to be able to maintain the weight loss. But it wasn't a super hard decision to try-- to, to decide to do it.
[00:04:53] Stigma and the Easy Way Out
[00:04:53] Dr. Jill Stoddard: It only became a little challenging sort of after the fact when I realized that people had this [00:05:00] attitude that, "Oh, you're taking the easy way out. It's, it's a crutch. It's cheating to have this weight loss surgery." And of course, since then, in the last five years, the weight loss medications have become very, very popular.
[00:05:14] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And I know many people who keep it a secret for the same reason. They feel like there's this stigma that it's cheating you know. Or they'll admit it, but even I've had people say self-deprecating things to me, "Oh, I'm taking this medication and I, I feel bad about it. I should be able to do this without help."
[00:05:32] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I mean, it's just, it's, it's a weird and fascinating phenomenon.
[00:05:38] Emma Waddington: As I was listening to you, I was just feeling that shame, right? That, that you describe about not being able to do it alone. What is that about with weight that it's cheating? Because I think, as you just said, you know, the diet culture really doesn't work, and that, you know, there's a lot of rebound weight.
[00:05:56] Emma Waddington: You were saying, you know, in one of the conversations I heard, you know, [00:06:00] when we, we diet, we lose the weight, but then we regain it plus some. So it's like a horrible cycle. And I imagine you experienced that probably, like you said, a lifetime of it, of this rebound effect, and it's must be so demoralizing, like you're-- there's
[00:06:17] Emma Waddington: something inherently wrong with you.
[00:06:19] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yeah, I mean, that's exactly the word, demoralizing was right, right there at the, at the head of-- top of mind because I think it is this area where people create it as this personal and moral failing
[00:06:35] Dr. Jill Stoddard: that it, you know, if your body doesn't fit a certain mold, there's something you're doing wrong or you should just have willpower.
[00:06:42] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And we don't really apply that to anything else, you know? Like, I don't know, if you break a bone and you need a cast, nobody's saying that's the easy way out, you should just grin and bear it and let the bone heal in a wonky way. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many other things. [00:07:00]
[00:07:00] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Or, you know, we were talking before we hit record, well, isn't using a dishwasher or driving a car, like, isn't that also technically cheating or the easy way out?
[00:07:09] Dr. Jill Stoddard: But there's no glory in walking 10 miles instead of driving. That would just be incredibly inefficient and kind of dumb, right? Like, we use technology and tools all the time to make our lives easier, more efficient, to get our time back. So I would much rather spend time with my kids than doing dishes by hand, and nobody
[00:07:30] Dr. Jill Stoddard: seems to think I'm a moral failure because I'm not doing my dishes by hand.
[00:07:34] Patriarchy and Body Ideals
[00:07:34] Dr. Jill Stoddard: But if you use a tool for weight loss, I mean, really it's all steeped in patriarchy, right? It's like, because this mostly affects women, and women are expected, you know, your bodies are supposed to look a certain way, but you're only supposed to get your body that way in a very s- you know, only by eating less and having self-control and having- willpower and it doesn't count if you do it any other way.
[00:07:59] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And [00:08:00] then, you know, I even think the body positivity movement is very well-intentioned, and I would love nothing more than for everyone on the planet to just love their bodies exactly as they are. But the reality is we still live in a culture that says you're not allowed to have a body that's a certain size or shape.
[00:08:18] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So we're
[00:08:18] Dr. Jill Stoddard: still swimming in these waters that say you have to be small, you know, and wrinkle-free and have long hair and all the other things about appearance. And so then with body positivity, I'm supposed to just love my body, and like if I'm a good feminist, then I'm gonna love
[00:08:32] Dr. Jill Stoddard: my body, except I still live in a culture that tells me my
[00:08:35] Dr. Jill Stoddard: body isn't right and it's not small enough and I should make it smaller.
[00:08:40] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So now the fact that I can't love my body because I l- swim in those waters makes me a bad feminist, so now I'm just gonna shut up about it and suffer in silence. It's like you
[00:08:49] Dr. Jill Stoddard: kinda can't win. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
[00:08:52] Emma Waddington: 100%. So true. So that, piece, that stuckness, that the truth is that we still live in this world that tells us we need to [00:09:00] look a certain way, especially as women. I think it applies more and more to men, hence we're seeing more and more sort of young men with eating disorders.
[00:09:07] Emma Waddington: It's like,
[00:09:08] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yeah.
[00:09:08] Emma Waddington: you know, I think about sort of boys and men are inheriting all the worst parts of, women. Like there's more
[00:09:14] Emma Waddington: anxiety in men, there's, you know, suicide is going up, and so the world is getting harder for them too. But it's true that
[00:09:22] Emma Waddington: women, you know, we do have certain stereotypes about being agreeable you know, being super smart.
[00:09:28] Emma Waddington: At the moment, we've got to sort of, you know, break all the records with, you know, how intelligent we are, but we also need to be beautiful and look a certain way. part of these messages, I agree, is adding to this, in a way, a shame. It goes both ways. You feel shame if you don't look a certain way, and you feel shame if you care about looking a certain way.
[00:09:47] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Exactly. Well put. That was a much more succinct way to say that, and that's exactly right. And you
[00:09:53] Dr. Jill Stoddard: know, there's even this, I don't know if it's research or just people who observed these trends but that over the course [00:10:00] of history, whenever women have started to come into power, that is when culturally skinny comes back in vogue.
[00:10:10] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Like if you look at, you know, when Twiggy became popular and Kate Moss became popular, it's always like right on the heels of, you know, women's liberation and the, and sexual liberation and women getting the right to vote. And I d- I'm blanking on the name of the book right now, but , but there are pieces that have been written about this that sort of track that change in history because if we're focusing on trying to be smaller, then we're not focusing on conquering the world.
[00:10:35] Emma Waddington: I was having a conversation, slight detour from this, but this idea that women are being sort of held back by different stereotypes and expectations. I mean, obviously we have the sort of, female hysteria once upon a time. And I was in a conversation recently with somebody who was saying that this sort of advent of you know, women getting more of a [00:11:00] diagnosis in ADHD, isn't that again telling women that they can't be exceptional and that women can't be incredibly smart?
[00:11:07] Emma Waddington: Is that putting women back in another box?
[00:11:09] Emma Waddington: you know, the reality is that as women, we have a fight ahead of us still, and we have to keep questioning the stereotypes that, you know, a lot of us carry and a lot of us apply to ourselves too. So coming back to the weight piece for you, like how do you make peace with those two parts, those two stereotypes i- within yourself, right? We don't want to necessarily need to look a certain way, but it also is
[00:11:35] Emma Waddington: something that perhaps is important because it allows you to do a lot of the things that you like doing, like you mentioned in one of the conversations around exercise. That's a true, you know, a value of yours. And I remember one of the earlier podcasts, I remember it as I was listening to you talking to Emily on, on Psychologist Off The Clock.
[00:11:53] Emma Waddington: I remember a podcast during COVID where you talked about hating the treadmill. Did you have a [00:12:00] treadmill in your garage
[00:12:01] Emma Waddington: at the time? I remember. And I remember you saying, yeah, I remember you saying, "God, I hate this, but I know I have to do this." And it sort
[00:12:10] Emma Waddington: of gave me this flashback of, you know, you talking about, "I have to do this.
[00:12:15] Emma Waddington: I-- This is supposed to be good for me, but I hate it." and then you've mentioned how, you know, weight was part of why that was so hard for you. So there are so many more parts than aesthetic and vanity.
[00:12:25] Health Trajectory and Strength
[00:12:25] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Oh, absolutely, and that was a huge part of it was, you know, even though my cholesterol was high, but I didn't otherwise have a lot of health problems. But my cholesterol didn't used to be high, and then all of a sudden it was high, and I could just sort of see this trajectory that I was on that, you know- Type 2 diabetes was probably around the corner.
[00:12:45] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And of course, you can live in a larger body and still be healthy, but I just knew I wasn't on-- That wasn't me. I think I, I was on a not so healthy trajectory. And when I had the surgery, within one month, my cholesterol [00:13:00] was normal. For five years, my labs have been perfect. Everything has just been great.
[00:13:05] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I feel great. And for me lately, you know, it's been more about not wanting to be an old, old lady. I wanna have strong muscles that will support my bones so that I don't,
[00:13:16] Dr. Jill Stoddard: you know, break a hip. And it used to be hard for me to just walk up the stairs or when my kids were little to, like, try to pick them up and hold them because it, it is harder to do things when you're carrying a lot more weight around.
[00:13:29] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And now I exercise, you know, four or five times a week, and I love it, and I'm strong. Like, I love how strong I am. My husband, you know, he's not a guy that will blow smoke. He will tell you like it is. And one day I was l- like getting dressed, and I looked in the mirror and I said, "Honey bunny, am I crazy, or do I have like a little bit of a six-pack?"
[00:13:52] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And he looked and, and he would s- he would laugh in my face if I was imagining that. And he said, "No, you totally do. I can totally
[00:13:58] Dr. Jill Stoddard: see it." And you know, for [00:14:00] someone who grew up being called Tubby her whole life, struggling to get on a treadmill, hating exercise, to, you know, love exercise now because it's not torture.
[00:14:13] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And I have a lot of compassion for my former self because I was really hard on that me. You know, "Why are you so lazy? Why can't you just get yourself to work out?" And now in hindsight, of course, it was torture. It was so difficult. Like, of course I
[00:14:29] Dr. Jill Stoddard: couldn't sustain it. It was so painful. And now it's not painful.
[00:14:33] Dr. Jill Stoddard: It's easy.
[00:14:34] Dr. Jill Stoddard: It's fun. But it's a totally different experience doing it with and without 90 pounds.
[00:14:40] Chris McCurry: I was just remembering that those Peloton commercials that got so much blowback from
[00:14:47] Chris McCurry: society. Do you recall those just a few years ago where the woman gets a Peloton bike for, I think it's her birthday or Christmas or something, and she's working out on it and working out on it, and she looks, [00:15:00] you know, not real happy doing it.
[00:15:02] Chris McCurry: And boy, Peloton got huge backlash for that. You know, this woman is a slave to societal expectations.
[00:15:11] Chris McCurry: Um,
[00:15:11] Chris McCurry: I mean, you know, some of us just find exercise it's not just, it's not just a matter of how difficult it is. It's boring.
[00:15:18] Values That Make Exercise Stick
[00:15:18] Chris McCurry: But,
[00:15:19] Chris McCurry: you know, if, if we can push past some of that stuff I think this is where values come in,
[00:15:25] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Absolutely
[00:15:26] Chris McCurry: we can talk about appetitive, you know, behaviors. I know you, you talk about values and how it's related to your journey as well as the work that you do with your clients who have similar issues
[00:15:39] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yeah, definitely. And, and actually that was one of the things that made me realize how important it is to really be clear on your values, because what the, the conversation, Emma, that you might be remembering about the treadmill is for years and years, I kept trying to connect that to my values, and it was like health, health, health, [00:16:00] and it just wasn't really clicking.
[00:16:02] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I just couldn't get myself there. And then I had this like aha moment one day, because my husband is one of those very lucky people who doesn't have to do anything, and he looks great. He's got, you know, like good genes for-- He's muscular without having to work at it, but he doesn't exercise. And I thought, "Oh my gosh, like my kids cannot grow up with two sedentary parents.
[00:16:24] Dr. Jill Stoddard: They have to have someone who models that like moving your body is a regular part of life." And so once I connected exercise to my values around motherhood and modeling to my children, you know, being a positive role model to them, that's when it clicked, and that's when I was better able to start consistently working out.
[00:16:45] Dr. Jill Stoddard: But that was prior to the weight loss, and I still hated it and it was torture, but I did it because I had it connected to my values. Now it remains connected to my values, but I've already modeled all this to my kids for many, many years. Now it's really [00:17:00] about health and not being an old, old lady and being around for a long time.
[00:17:04] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And our house has lots of floors, so I'm like, "I gotta, I got a lot of stairs that I'm gonna have to be able to walk up and down for a really long time, so I better make sure I stay strong and active." And, and so, you know, I think it's an example where sometimes your values, the values you prioritize might change a little bit over time as your life changes.
[00:17:26] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And that c- like consistently reclarifying your values, I think is an important way to kinda stay on track with whatever it is that you're, that you're doing in your life that matters.
[00:17:37] Is Wanting to Look Good Okay
[00:17:37] Emma Waddington: I was thinking you know, the piece around I wanted to come back to those stereotypes because I do think that I s- I struggle internally with it too. Like the, the wanting to move our body feels like a good value. Like everybody would go, "Yeah, we'll
[00:17:53] Emma Waddington: we'll, we'll follow that one." Or you know, wanting to teach your, your kids that it's good to move your body, that's, you know, [00:18:00] absolutely. But what about wanting to look a certain way? That's obviously not a value, it's a goal. But I do think that as women, you know, there-- we're still swimming in that soup where we have to look a certain way. But what makes that Okay. Like, is it okay for us to still want to look a certain way and, and want to dress up and want to wear makeup?
[00:18:25] Emma Waddington: There's something about in this conversation around this that feels really important to unpack too, like as women.
[00:18:32] Dr. Jill Stoddard: like if I had a client that I was working on that exact question with, it would be, "Well, what is it in the service of?"
[00:18:39] Dr. Jill Stoddard: is is your appearance in the service-- Is there some value around taking pride in appearance, caring what
[00:18:47] Dr. Jill Stoddard: you look like, just wanting to like dress to the nines and feel good about yourself?
[00:18:51] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Or are you running away from something? Are you only doing this because of fear of judgment from other people, because society says you should, [00:19:00] right? Values are meant to be personal and freely chosen, not dictated by culture, society, your parents who call you tubby, you know, or, or anything else. They're personal and freely chosen.
[00:19:11] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And so, you know, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with caring about your appearance if it's values-oriented, but I do think we should be really aware of when it's not. And, you know, I think for me, with the surgery, if I'm being totally honest, part of it genuinely was health-related, and the
[00:19:30] Dr. Jill Stoddard: other part of it was living in a society where I, I hated my body and hated myself.
[00:19:37] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Like, I just really struggled with my
[00:19:40] Dr. Jill Stoddard: appearance. It also affected my, my love life, right? It's like hard to be intimate when you're not
[00:19:45] Dr. Jill Stoddard: feeling confident. And so for me, it partly was appearance, and it probably was maybe more avoidance than values at that time. And I wish that that hadn't been the case.
[00:19:56] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Like, I wish I could've been someone who just said, "I'm [00:20:00] not gonna cave to that pressure. I'm gonna love myself exactly how I am." And I, I, I, couldn't. I, couldn't.
[00:20:08] Emma Waddington: That's so brave and honest. Thank you. I think that's super important for the audience to hear, because I think there
[00:20:14] Emma Waddington: is something, you know, really judgmental about caring about your appearance. Like that's not allowed,
[00:20:21] Emma Waddington: and it's unfair.
[00:20:22] Dr. Jill Stoddard: But you're judged if you don't,
[00:20:24] Emma Waddington: Yeah, that's right.
[00:20:25] Dr. Jill Stoddard: If you don't wear your makeup and curl your hair or whatever, you get
[00:20:29] Dr. Jill Stoddard: judged-- Or don't Botox your forehead, you get
[00:20:31] Dr. Jill Stoddard: judged for that. But
[00:20:32] Dr. Jill Stoddard: you get judged if you do, 'cause again, you're cheating and you shouldn't
[00:20:35] Dr. Jill Stoddard: care about your appearance. I mean, it's basically, it's like Goldilocks and the three bears, right?
[00:20:40] Dr. Jill Stoddard: The porridge is either too hot or too cold. We're never just right. We're
[00:20:43] Emma Waddington: We're never just right.
[00:20:45] Emma Waddington: We're
[00:20:45] Dr. Jill Stoddard: But I do think that's where values can really play a role. It's like if we're never just right, then we can let go of what they, quote unquote, "say we should or shouldn't do,"
[00:20:56] Dr. Jill Stoddard: and, and really just try to get clear on what matters
[00:20:59] Dr. Jill Stoddard: to us. [00:21:00] Because no matter what, somebody's gonna have an opinion about it.
[00:21:03] Aging Style and Looksmaxing
[00:21:03] Emma Waddington: 100%.
[00:21:04] Emma Waddington: I've been thinking about this more and more lately 'cause I have a nine-year-old daughter. But I love dressing up, and I always have done. And with age, you know, I think I'm becoming one of those-- I remember being a little person and looking at these older women that was, like, dressed up to the T, And I used to think, "Gosh, do you just, like, lose your sense of self as you get older?" Wearing the craziest colors and the sort of biggest lips and, you know. And I'm kind of understanding that I can see it happening with me. I'm probably gonna be one of those crazy women, you
[00:21:35] Emma Waddington: know, wearing the big hats, you know, to tea. But there's
[00:21:39] Chris McCurry: you do ha-- you do have your leopard print Red high-top Converse
[00:21:43] Emma Waddington: I love them. You
[00:21:44] Emma Waddington: see? It's happening already.
[00:21:46] Emma Waddington: Yeah, it's happening
[00:21:47] Dr. Jill Stoddard: the opposite of losing yourself, though.
[00:21:49] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Like, I, I mean, I feel like the mo- I, I just turned 53, what, a week ago,
[00:21:55] Dr. Jill Stoddard: and I feel like the minute I turned 50, I just had zero-- I don't... Can I swear [00:22:00] on this podcast?
[00:22:00] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Zero F's to give.
[00:22:02] Emma Waddington: Yes.
[00:22:03] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Like, I-- Like, it was like I turned this corner and was like, "I know myself.
[00:22:08] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I like myself.
[00:22:09] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I'm just gonna, like, do what I
[00:22:11] Dr. Jill Stoddard: want and be who I want and not give a shit what anybody else thinks anymore." Like, there's something-- Menopause is rough, but that is the one thing that comes with menopause that I think is a
[00:22:21] Dr. Jill Stoddard: wonderful, amazing gift. And I think those women you're talking
[00:22:24] Dr. Jill Stoddard: about, that's probably what it was.
[00:22:26] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Not losing self, more gaining a sense of
[00:22:28] Dr. Jill Stoddard: self. Like, "I'm gonna wear my big hats and my big lips, and I don't care what you
[00:22:32] Chris McCurry: Well, w-w-we are gonna draw the line at Mar-a-Lago face.
[00:22:36] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yes, definitely.
[00:22:40] Chris McCurry: I mean, I'm sorry,
[00:22:42] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yes, that's a whole different ballgame.
[00:22:45] Chris McCurry: that's, yeah, those values are,
[00:22:48] Chris McCurry: I, I don't know. I, don't know. But you
[00:22:50] Chris McCurry: know, it, it is true. It's, it's happening in the, in, you know, in the men's side too. I mean, there's this whole
[00:22:55] Chris McCurry: new thing looks maxing, look maxing,
[00:22:58] Dr. Jill Stoddard: yes. Oh
[00:22:59] Chris McCurry: [00:23:00] that, uh, the
[00:23:00] Chris McCurry: young men are doing where they're actually hitting themselves in the face with hammers to change their
[00:23:05] Chris McCurry: bone structure and- Oh,
[00:23:07] Chris McCurry: yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's called
[00:23:09] Chris McCurry: bone
[00:23:09] Dr. Jill Stoddard: these weird influencers on YouTube doing these crazy things that the kids are watching. yeah,
[00:23:15] Chris McCurry: yeah, to, to try to f-create
[00:23:17] Dr. Jill Stoddard: It's
[00:23:17] Chris McCurry: the perfect male, you know, appearance and it's pretty twisted.
[00:23:22] Emma Waddington: that does sound pretty
[00:23:23] Emma Waddington: twisted. But, you know, we did have women removing ribs at one point,
[00:23:28] Emma Waddington: so I guess, you know, welcome to the club.
[00:23:31] Chris McCurry: or
[00:23:31] Chris McCurry: foot
[00:23:32] Chris McCurry: binding.
[00:23:32] Chris McCurry: Foot binding.
[00:23:34] Dr. Jill Stoddard: foot binding. Yeah,
[00:23:36] Emma Waddington: Yeah, corsets. The joys.
[00:23:40] Chris McCurry: it.
[00:23:41] Emma Waddington: I
[00:23:41] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I went to a women's empowerment
[00:23:43] Beauty Industry Backlash
[00:24:00] Dr. Jill Stoddard: conference, and the very first offering, the talk, was three women who worked in the, like, med spa beauty industry talking all about weight loss and, and de-wrinkling and being younger. And listen, I had weight loss surgery. I do some of those things, but at the same time, I was like, "This is a women's empowerment conference.
[00:24:06] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Like, why are you telling me to shrink my body and get rid of my wrinkles? Like, that is the opposite of women's empowerment."
[00:24:14] Chris McCurry: earned those
[00:24:15] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I mean,
[00:24:16] Empowerment vs Appearance
[00:24:16] Dr. Jill Stoddard: it's just-- And so that made me very sad that like, okay, now this stuff is, like, even infiltrating these, like, women's spaces that really the messaging should be, "How are you gonna go live big and bold and have this big successful, you know, business?"
[00:24:29] Dr. Jill Stoddard: It was a women's business conference. Not like, "Let's focus on your body and your skin and your youth," 'cause doesn't that really tend to get in the way of focusing on
[00:24:39] Dr. Jill Stoddard: those other things? It's tough. It's a, it's a tricky
[00:24:42] Dr. Jill Stoddard: space.
[00:24:43] Emma Waddington: tough. It is tough. And it, there is a sweet spot.
[00:24:46] Who Is This For
[00:24:53] Emma Waddington: I mean, you know, thinking about, you know, that permission to be that perhaps we feel more sort of, emboldened to do as we get older, as women with sort of less, I don't know, swimming in less of [00:25:00] that soup. But that permission to be
[00:25:01] Emma Waddington: sometimes does include you know, dressing a way that feels good because we like it as opposed to because we're being told to.
[00:25:09] Emma Waddington: Like, that's what I think about with my daughter. It's like, who's telling you? No, my daughter doesn't have any of this yet. She does what she wants mostly. But eventually it'll be, who's telling you this? You know, who is this for? Is this because you want to? Does this feel good inside of you?
[00:25:26] Emma Waddington: Or is this because you want somebody else to think you look good? And, and I think, you know, it's messy. There's a bit of both
[00:25:35] Emma Waddington: inside, you know, when we choose to look or do something. It's, you know, it's messy. It's not a clear-cut message. But
[00:25:43] Emma Waddington: we have to
[00:25:43] Emma Waddington: keep asking ourselves that to make sure that it is aligned with the human we wanna be.
[00:25:47]
[00:25:48] Toward vs Away Moves
[00:25:48] Chris McCurry: of the warning signs or the red flags that suggest that, Because w-we have to navigate this journey, and we have all these influences [00:26:00] and, you know, the stuff in our heads, you know, as in, as in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, we might say the passengers on the bus are telling us all kinds of things, and they don't get off the bus. We're gonna have to live with them. What are some of the signs that you see that suggest that people are kinda moving into more, a little more the toxicity range or, how do we navigate this? What are, what are some ways
[00:26:25] Dr. Jill Stoddard: You mean like how do we know if it's more of like a move toward or a move away, like
[00:26:29] Chris McCurry: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Dr. Jill Stoddard: appearance and weight and those kinds of things?
[00:26:32] Chris McCurry: Yeah. When-- And you might wanna explain TORD in a way for our listeners who aren't familiar with the Matrix, but,
[00:26:39] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yeah, I mean, toward in a way that this is, you know, kind of going back to that question, like what is this in the service of? Is this choice you're making to look a certain way or not look a certain way or do a certain intervention or not, is that moving you in the direction of being the me you wanna be, living the life that you want, living your values?
[00:26:58] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Or is it moving away from [00:27:00] that because really it's more about avoiding a feeling you don't wanna feel or, you know, being driven by your thoughts and feelings in ways that aren't values consistent. And You know, that's a good question, Chris. I don't know that I have a real specific answer in terms of red flags because I, I think...
[00:27:18] Leave Bodies Alone
[00:27:18] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So with the people that I work with who have gone through weight loss and come to see me for help with long-term success, maintenance success, 'cause obviously that's the hard part my soapbox with weight and appearance is I think we will have arrived in a, in a better place when we all just leave each other alone, right?
[00:27:37] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Like if you tell me, "I'm a bigger person and I'm perfectly okay with that," I'm gonna say, "Awesome. That's great. Good for you." But if you say, "I'm a bigger person and I'm not okay with it and I wanna be a smaller person," I'm gonna say, "Great. Good for you. I support you." And if you say, "I'm gonna do it, I'm just gonna try to do it with willpower," I'm gonna say, "Great.
[00:27:56] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Good for you." If you say, "I wanna do it with s- weight loss surgery," or, "I wanna [00:28:00] do it with Ozempic or Mounjaro," or whatever, I'm gonna say, "Great. Good for you." Like, I just, I don't know that I explore values in a way of like, should you be doing this? Is it values-driven? Because I more wanna be in a space of like, if you're making this decision, whatever that decision is, I'm here for it because you are a grown-ass woman or man And I'm just gonna trust that, like, you can make the right decision for your body and your life, and I'm just here to help you do whatever that is successfully.
[00:28:33] Dr. Jill Stoddard: 'Cause I think we just judge way too much, and I don't wanna
[00:28:36] Dr. Jill Stoddard: judge.
[00:28:38] Chris McCurry: Well, but are you, are you listening for hints that these may not be f- freely chosen?
[00:28:43] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I mean, certainly listening for, but I think, like we were talking about before, it's such a tricky space. I think most of the time it's a both/and thing.
[00:28:53] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And it was for me, right? Like, it was values-driven, and it was also trying to run away from a [00:29:00] lifetime of little tabet and shame and feeling bad about myself and my body.
[00:29:04] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So it was personal and freely chosen, and it was also running away from a lot of pain and discomfort. So I, I think it was-- it's, it's one of those spaces that often tends to be little from column A, little from column B. Like, it can be a move toward and a move away almost, you know, like at the same time.
[00:29:24] Chris McCurry: Was that
[00:29:24] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And I think that can be okay. As long as the values are also there and it's not only avoidance, I think that's okay.
[00:29:32] Chris McCurry: Good. Thank you
[00:29:33] Emma Waddington: , it's so refreshing, I think, to hear this. I mean, obviously, you know, some of us-- I don't work with eating disorders, but that's always in the sort of, you know, backdrop to anything weight-related. a certain group, a group of, of mostly women, but more and more men start to restrict too much or you know, they might fall into the sort of bulimic where they're restricting, purging or over-exercising, and [00:30:00] life gets really, really small,
[00:30:01] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yeah.
[00:30:02] Emma Waddington: And tight, and there's not a lot of values in their life, and it's much more goal-oriented.
[00:30:10] Emma Waddington: And
[00:30:11] Emma Waddington: I think that's what, you know, obviously, whenever there's a weight loss conversation, that is the concern, that it's gonna, you know, restriction is going to kick in, and that's gonna get them into a life that really isn't worth living 'cause we know that anorexia is one of the deadliest mental health disorders.
[00:30:28] Emma Waddington: But yeah, how do you speak to that ' cause that is obviously a big concern for many parents and many clinicians and physicians, and perhaps that's where some of the conversations get really uncomfortable for doctors
[00:30:41] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Well, like you, I also don't work with eating disorders, so that is like way outside of my ambit. So if it is, you know, significant restriction, over-exercise, binge purge, that's something I refer out. So, with me, like, the people that I'm working with who have had surgery certainly may [00:31:00] have a history of binge eating, you know, like disorder.
[00:31:04] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I think most of the people I've worked with have a history of some disordered eating, but not a diagnosable eating disorder that is getting them into more of like a danger zone like that. So it hasn't been something that I've had to address really personally.
[00:31:20] Scale as Data
[00:31:29] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I will say one of the things that I do the most that might be kind of surprising that I think-- Again, I'm not an eating disorder therapist, so I'm not sure, but it's my understanding that, like, when you work with eating disorders, there's sort of this like scales are evil, scales are bad, throw your scale away, never weigh yourself.
[00:31:42] Dr. Jill Stoddard: However, when you're work with- working with people who have a long history of being overweight or obese, the research shows the opposite is true. So I'll give you just anecdotally an example for myself is like I never used to weigh myself because I was told scales are bad, you [00:32:00] shouldn't weigh yourself.
[00:32:01] Dr. Jill Stoddard: But then I wouldn't even know that I had gained weight till my pants didn't fit anymore and I had gained 15 pounds. And so that yo-yo dieting, lose weight and then gain it back, part of the reason that weight gain, regain happened is because I was never weighing myself. And a scale, it's just data. It's literally a measure of gravity.
[00:32:21] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And we have, you know, many of us have a really weird and, like, almost pathological relationship to our scales. And so part of the work, a big part of the work I do with folks who are trying to maintain weight loss is change their relationship to their scale. This is just a data point, and I actually want you to weigh yourself every day or every other day because it is a data point.
[00:32:45] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And so if that number is going too low, well, then you know you need to do something. You need to eat more or you need to exercise less. If that number is creeping up past where you want your sort of like comfortable, healthy [00:33:00] range to be, well, then you can look at what you've been doing over the last week that's causing that number to go up, and you can adjust.
[00:33:07] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And so it's like-- And for me, in my p- in the past five years, this has been the single most helpful thing that has finally kept me on track for the first time in... I mean, I don't know. I w- I-- My parents put me on my first diet when I was in like fourth grade. They offered to pay me a dollar for every pound I lost, and if you look at pictures of me back then, I wasn't even really overweight.
[00:33:29] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So you're talking 50 years of yo-yo dieting, and the scale has been the single most important thing that has really helped me to stay on track because it's a data point. But I had to change my relationship. And, and so when I work with clients and they stand on the scale and it's two pounds up and they go Right?
[00:33:49] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And have that, like, instant panic, then we, you know, we, like, practice changing our relationship to those feelings, to that number so that it can be a tool that helps [00:34:00] keep you on track and it's not this, like, bad, evil thing. Now, of course, if you're talking about anorexia and an unhealthy relationship and restriction, it's a totally different story.
[00:34:09] Dr. Jill Stoddard: But, like, for the people that I work with, it's been a game changer for them, and every single one of them has the same story as me. They avoided the scale. They were taught the scale is evil. They were taught they should throw the scale away. And then with me, they start-- they change their relationship to the scale, and now it's the scale is a helpful tool, and that's it.
[00:34:27] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And it doesn't mean anything. It's not a moral, you know, judgment when the scale says a certain number. It's just a data point.
[00:34:34] Emma Waddington: Yeah, that moral judgment, right? The shame that comes in and that sort of s- cascade of other behaviors that come with the shame, the hiding, and potentially the, you know, behaving in ways that are not aligned with our values. You know, we don't look after ourselves very well in those moments when we're feeling deeply ashamed about ourselves.
[00:34:54] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And isn't it silly that we would feel shame because a number on a digital device pops up, [00:35:00] right? So it's like that's a lot of what I do is, like, you know, essentially combating that shame, like changing the meaning, I
[00:35:06] Dr. Jill Stoddard: guess, of what that, what that number means.
[00:35:09] Emma Waddington: What else do you do? I guess what, what's interesting is this-- You're absolutely right.
[00:35:14] Food Everywhere Now
[00:35:18] Emma Waddington: The maintenance piece seems to be the, the most challenging piece around you know, weight loss. And in this day and age, I think about you know, the accessibility of food is, is, is a huge problem. Like, there's food absolutely everywhere.
[00:35:27] Emma Waddington: I was talking to somebody about it the other day that, when I was growing up, I can't even remember if we got s-snacks at school. I think we may have had one. But my kids get, you know, they get two snacks in addition to, if not three, in addition to lunch. Like, there's a lot of food, and they're expected to be eating every few hours and and there's vending machines at school and, you know, food is really everywhere.
[00:35:51] Emma Waddington: So it's really hard to manage your food intake nowadays compared
[00:35:55] Dr. Jill Stoddard: if you're gonna quit drinking, you can quit cold turkey, but you
[00:35:58] Dr. Jill Stoddard: can't quit eating.
[00:35:59] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So if [00:36:00] that is-- if food is a trigger for you and something that you're using to try to self-soothe or to fix your boredom or your anxiety or whatever, you know, you can't just quit cold turkey. G- you gotta eat to live.
[00:36:11] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So I think it does make it a challenge.
[00:36:13] Cravings and Willingness
[00:36:13] Dr. Jill Stoddard: and that, like, one of the exercises I do is I have people choose a food or we'll do it more than once. Like if you have food that you just don't let in your house because you're scared of it, 'cause you don't
[00:36:23] Dr. Jill Stoddard: trust yourself that you're gonna binge or overeat on it, we bring it to session and practice like mindful willingness.
[00:36:30] Dr. Jill Stoddard: You know, smelling it, looking at it e- essentially changing the relationship to the feelings that the food triggers to the food itself. You know, practicing kind of interacting with it in a different way. Doing some like basically distress tolerance, I guess you would call it, around craving, you know, making s- or willingness, like making space for craving. I also learned from Kelly Wilson many, many years ago, so, you know, Kelly Wilson being one of the big ACT guys.
[00:36:58] Uncertainty Drives Relapse
[00:36:58] Dr. Jill Stoddard: He was doing this [00:37:00] training, it was not about substance use, but for some reason he brought this up, and it was the role that intolerance of uncertainty plays in relapse of substances. And the way he talked about it is if you give up your substance of choice, you're now sitting in a constant state of will I, won't I?
[00:37:19] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Will I, won't I? Meaning will I pick back up or not? Am I gonna stay sober or am I gonna drink? Will I, won't I? Will I, won't I? Will I, won't I? Will I, won't I? And as long as you're staying sober, there's always this possibility that you might drink again. So what's the only way to quiet that voice and resolve that uncertainty?
[00:37:36] Dr. Jill Stoddard: To drink.
[00:37:36] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So it's not just about cravings,
[00:37:39] Dr. Jill Stoddard: right? Like I think I always oversimplified it and thought like, "Oh, you just have this craving and it's so unbearable, you give in and drink." But it's also this uncertainty, and that is a really hard thing for human beings to sit with. And so if you drink, it takes all that away, but now you're starting from scratch again and you're right back in will I, won't I?
[00:37:57] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Will I, won't I? And so that's something [00:38:00] that I, I work with people on in terms of like the food. You know, whether, if it's a, like whatever, a piece of cake or a,
[00:38:07] Dr. Jill Stoddard: you know, a fourth piece of pizza or whatever the, the case may be.
[00:38:12] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And, and so the, the key there being, practicing willingness specifically toward the uncertainty.
[00:38:18] Dr. Jill Stoddard: That like I don't know and I don't need to know, and that's okay. Uncertainty is safe. Feelings of doubt are just sensations. It's not an emergency.
[00:38:28] Dr. Jill Stoddard: That kind of thing.
[00:38:29] Chris McCurry: w-when my mother quit smoking cigarettes, and we're talking over 60 years ago, what she did, and this defines my mother so well, she took a bag of cigarettes and she put it on the shelf and she quit smoking.
[00:38:44] Chris McCurry: And she told herself, If I ever wanna start it up again, they're right there."
[00:38:49] Chris McCurry: And she didn't. But if
[00:38:51] Chris McCurry: she, she just,
[00:38:52] Chris McCurry: just, "If they're there, if I, you
[00:38:54] Chris McCurry: know, if I want to But she s- she knew that if they weren't there, she'd be thinking about them[00:39:00]
[00:39:00] Dr. Jill Stoddard: All the time.
[00:39:01] Chris McCurry: Yeah.
[00:39:02] Chris McCurry: And they, you know,
[00:39:02] Chris McCurry: I mean, that was, that was my mother.
[00:39:04] Dr. Jill Stoddard: I love that.
[00:39:06] Emma Waddington: That's a great example. And I was just-- You were saying this, and I was thinking, "Gosh, that's anxiety all over though, isn't it?" So,
[00:39:12] Emma Waddington: you know, you have people who are terrified of, I don't know, the, the plane is gonna crash or you know, they're gonna make a fool of themselves. And so am I gonna stay or am I gonna go?
[00:39:23] Emma Waddington: Am I gonna take this plane or aren't I gonna take this plane? And so they make decisions. They go, "Well, I'm not gonna take the plane." And so then there's no uncertainty. Or, "I'm just gonna leave this party," so then there's no uncertainty. I guess it's like I'd never thought of it in that way when it came to, you know, anxiety as well.
[00:39:40] Emma Waddington: Like this intolerance of uncertainty is, you know, such an important
[00:39:45] Dr. Jill Stoddard: huge.
[00:39:46] Emma Waddington: We quote you so much, Jill, on this podcast, this getting comfortable feeling
[00:39:50] Emma Waddington: uncomfortable. I think I must say it every other conversation we have. It just feels like such an important muscle, and it sounds like that's part of this conversation too,
[00:39:58] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yes, like I don't... [00:40:00] Did I tell you guys a story? Stop me if I already told you this.
[00:40:03] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Oh, I love it. Get comfortable being
[00:40:05] Chris McCurry: I got that.
[00:40:06] Chris McCurry: fr- I got that from Lisa Coyne.
[00:40:08] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Oh, I need it. I love it.
[00:40:10] Get Comfortable Uncomfortable
[00:40:10] Dr. Jill Stoddard: actually, speaking of Lisa Coyne, so Lisa and I both give a talk at this same event,
[00:40:15] Dr. Jill Stoddard: um, with this amazing group called Kyle Cares.
[00:40:19] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And so basically, the organizer reached out to me and asked me to do this talk, It's for kids in high school, like juniors and seniors in high school. And he said, "I want you to teach them something that is actionable, that they can take home with them, that will improve their mental health and reduce their vulnerability to suicide, and you have 25 minutes."
[00:40:37] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And
[00:40:38] Emma Waddington: Ah.
[00:40:39] Dr. Jill Stoddard: like, burst out laughing. I was like, "Oh, okay. Easy. Let me get right on that." But then, like, right after that, I was like, "Oh, no, actually, that is easy. I know exactly what I'll do," and it's teaching them to get comfortable being uncomfortable. 'Cause,
[00:40:51] Dr. Jill Stoddard: like, think of how many decisions we make
[00:40:53] Dr. Jill Stoddard: because we don't wanna feel a certain thing, and
[00:40:56] Dr. Jill Stoddard: how many opportunities would open or hard conversations we would have.
[00:40:59] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And [00:41:00] one of my favorite exercises I did with them-- Well, the first time I did it, I tried to have them look at their phones and not do anything, like see all the notifications and not open their apps, and it completely failed. They could not do it. and it, and so I was like, all right. I went to, it was like the t- the thing that's at the top of the hierarchy instead of starting with something that was a little less challenging.
[00:41:22] Dr. Jill Stoddard: So that was a learning lesson. But the one that I did that was awesome, and it wasn't my idea, someone else gave me the idea, is I cut little squares of bubble wrap, and I handed it out to all the kids, and the talk was on, like, impulsivity, like when you send off that text message in anger and then you regret it 'cause you just ruined your relationship.
[00:41:40] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And so I had them all put their thumbs on the bubble wrap and not pop
[00:41:44] Dr. Jill Stoddard: it And it was so good, you guys. Like, they were all like, "You're so mean." 'Cause it's hard. It is really hard to do that. And I was like, "You can't cheat 'cause I'll hear it. I'll know if you do it." And a couple kids did. They could not
[00:41:59] Dr. Jill Stoddard: [00:42:00] stop themselves. Yep. But for everybody else, we like sat and opened and made space and said, "You know, these are just sensations.
[00:42:08] Dr. Jill Stoddard: This isn't dangerous. I can handle this. It's temporary. I'm safe. There's nothing I need to do." And just sort of changed our relationship to that urge and like let it go. It was
[00:42:21] Dr. Jill Stoddard: awesome. They were cute.
[00:42:23] Chris McCurry: I do the same thing with clients. I say, "Somewhere on your body there's an itch right now.
[00:42:28] Chris McCurry: Don't scratch it, and
[00:42:30] Chris McCurry: notice that it'll come, it'll increase in its intensity, and then it'll go away."
[00:42:37] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Breathe into it. Just notice. Yeah. And now I'm noticing the itches on my
[00:42:43] Dr. Jill Stoddard: head and trying really hard not to scratch them. Me blood on my knee, like everywhere. Thank you, Chris.
[00:42:50] Chris McCurry: be mindful
[00:42:51] Emma Waddington: Or not, just
[00:42:52] Chris McCurry: or not. g-go ahead.
[00:42:55] Chris McCurry: So we, we come to the part of the podcast where I say, "In the interest of [00:43:00] time-"
[00:43:00] Chris McCurry: fi-final thoughts, any other secrets to maintenance? Things that we want to impart to our listeners if people are in the beginningness of this journey.
[00:43:10] Outcome Independence Mindset
[00:43:10] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Well, I mean, I think this wouldn't be about maintenance. This would maybe be more about weight loss. But, you know, one of the other things we often talk about in acceptance and commitment therapy is like non-attachment to outcome or outcome independence.
[00:43:24] Dr. Jill Stoddard: You know, 'cause when you're overly focused on, "I need to be a certain weight or be a certain size," and then that's not happening as fast as you want it to happen you know, I think that puts people at risk for just kind of giving up and going back to old behaviors.
[00:43:37] Dr. Jill Stoddard: But when you, when you make it really more about the values
[00:43:41] Dr. Jill Stoddard: and the steps and the actions and just showing
[00:43:44] Dr. Jill Stoddard: up each day doing things
[00:43:46] Dr. Jill Stoddard: differently and just sort
[00:43:48] Dr. Jill Stoddard: of trust that like it'll happen down the road.
[00:43:51] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And it's like we know, like if you, if you wanna build your muscles and you go to the gym,
[00:43:56] Dr. Jill Stoddard: you don't flex in the mirror after one hour and go, "What the [00:44:00] hell?
[00:44:00] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Why aren't my muscles bigger?" Like, you know this is a thing that's gonna
[00:44:03] Dr. Jill Stoddard: take time. But there's something that happens with like the weight loss and the scales, like people get very impatient,
[00:44:10] Dr. Jill Stoddard: you know, and really focused on these like specific outcomes. And so I think, you know, wanting-- Having a goal and wanting an outcome is fine, but kind of holding it lightly and really focusing on what are the steps you need to take to be effective, That's one thing that I, that I like promote when people are in the weight loss phase, and then I guess I sort of turn that on its head when they're in the maintenance phase because then it is about that data point that's on that, that's on that scale.
[00:44:39] Chris McCurry: So work-working the process
[00:44:42] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yeah.
[00:44:43] Permission and Bias Check
[00:44:43] Emma Waddington: and I was just thinking, shall we end with something more about that permission piece? 'Cause I know we've talked a lot about weight loss, but underneath it, there's this sense of, giving people permission to do what feels right even with, you know, all the judgment that there [00:45:00] is around it, and just, be mindful. Notice how it's working
[00:45:03] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Yeah, I, yeah, I think we could all stand to like look at our own biases. I mean, I will fully admit, like I see Ariana Grande and my very first thought is like, "Oh, honey, are you okay?" Like, "I think you need to eat." And then I'm immediately aware like, oh, I'm just doing the same thing in the opposite direction,
[00:45:21] Dr. Jill Stoddard: you know? And, and I think all of us kind of because we live in this culture have this sort of default to look at a person's body or appearance and kind of immediately judge. And I would love for all of us to try to just be more aware of that and have, like I was saying before on my soapbox, have more of a like you do you, and whatever I can do to support you, I am happy to do that.
[00:45:44] Dr. Jill Stoddard: And, you know, yeah, I, I hope that people will use these tools that we have available to us if that is something that they want to do and not feel bad or guilty or shame about it, and also not feel like they have to do it, [00:46:00] right? If you're like fine with your body shape and size, great. Good for you.
[00:46:04] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Don't, don't cave.
[00:46:05] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Like you do you.
[00:46:06] Emma Waddington: I like this.
[00:46:08] Wrap Up and Resources
[00:46:08] Emma Waddington: Thank you, Jill. This has
[00:46:09] Emma Waddington: been a fantastic conversation, and our listeners can listen to our first conversation with you on imposterism which was fantastic as, of course, your books are too. So
[00:46:20] Emma Waddington: Thank you.
[00:46:20] Emma Waddington: for your time and for your honesty and for bringing this conversation to our listeners.
[00:46:25] Emma Waddington: it's
[00:46:26] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Of course. Yeah, happy to do it. thank you so much for having me.
[00:46:30] Chris McCurry: You, Jill. This has been fabulous.
[00:46:31] Dr. Jill Stoddard: Bye,
[00:46:32] Dr. Jill Stoddard: guys. Talk soon.
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