Secret #71: What a Terminal Diagnosis Taught Me About Living with Dr. Ray Owen and Sam Stroud
Recommended Episodes:
A tender, practical conversation about how a terminal diagnosis can sharpen priorities, deepen connection, and teach the rest of us how to live on purpose—today.
Psychologist Dr. Ray Owen and Sam Stroud, social researcher from Cardiff and recently diagnosed with MND/ALS, join Emma and Chris to talk about presence, priorities, and building a life that stays wide—even when options narrow. Sam shares what helped in the first weeks after diagnosis (stay engaged with life, ask for real support), while Ray maps compassionate skills for meeting pain without letting it shrink your world. Together, they show how practices like meditation can hold difficulty and meaning at the same time, and why honest community is a lifeline for patients and families alike. You’ll leave with grounded tools for navigating illness—and for living more fully even if you’re well.
Topics Discussed in this Episode:
Staying engaged with life after diagnosis
First-person stories as antidotes to fear
Meditation as capacity-building (not escape)
Compassion skills for making room for pain
Community and honest conversation as lifelines
Mortality as a focusing practice for priorities
TIMESTAMPS:
00:07:20 — Getting the diagnosis quickly & why certainty helped
00:09:10 — “Stay engaged” as immediate orientation
00:17:10 — Finding models of living well with MND
00:18:16 — Why lived examples recalibrate what’s possible
00:32:21 — What meditation actually gives patients
00:34:40 — Mortality as a focusing practice
About Dr. Ray Owen:
Listen to Two Old Psychologists Talk About Stuff Podcast
Dr. Ray Owen is a consultant clinical psychologist and health psychologist with over 35 years experience of working in physical health settings within the hospitals, hospices and community health settings in the UK. He has specialised in working with significant physical health problems, particularly cancer, neurological conditions, pain and also with grief. He has a special interest in using the Psychological Flexibility approach (e.g Acceptance & Commitment Therapy) in adjustment to significant life changes (including end of life care), and in promoting this perspective in medical, nursing and other healthcare colleagues. He teaches and supervises internationally on these topics. He is an Association of Contextual Behavioural Science Peer Reviewed Trainer.
He is the author of two successful self-help books published by Routledge – ‘Facing the Storm’ (2nd ed 2013 ) and ‘Living with the Enemy’ (2014), both of which were shortlisted for the British Medical Association Popular Medicine Book of the Year Award. He is co-host of the podcast "Two Old Psychologists Talking About Stuff"
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Ep. 71 What a Terminal Diagnosis Taught Me About Living with Dr. Ray Owen and Sam Stroud
[00:00:00]
[00:00:40] Chris McCurry: Hello, and welcome to Life's Dirty Little Secrets. I'm Chris mcc.
[00:00:47] Emma Waddington: And I am Emma Waddington. Have you ever avoided talking about something hard with someone you love? Not because you didn't care, but because you cared so much you didn't know what to say? Well, today's episode is [00:01:00] personal. My brother-in-law, Sam, who's here with us today, was diagnosed with Moten urine
[00:01:05] Emma Waddington: disease in August, 2025, and he's 36, and I have been in awe of how he and my sister are navigating this with honesty, with grace, and with each other.
[00:01:14] Emma Waddington: Sam wanted to have this conversation about what it's actually like, what he wishes he'd known, what he's learned about himself, about other people, about what helps and what doesn't. And he's joined by Dr. Ray Owen, a consultant clinical psychologist with over 30 years of experience, cancer, palliative care, and end of life work.
[00:01:35] Emma Waddington: Ray is the author of Facing the Storm and Living with the Enemy, both of which explore how we can live well under difficult circumstances. Stephen Hayes, the founder of act, called Facing the Storm, a Wise book and said, you may not control the storm, but you can control how you relate to it. And today we'll be talking about two dirty little secrets here.
[00:01:54] Emma Waddington: One is that when you get a diagnosis like this, you don't fall apart the way you think you would. Life [00:02:00] keeps going. Tuesday is still Tuesday, and the other is that the people around you often go quiet, and that silence can be lonelier than the illness itself. This one's for anyone facing something hard, anyone loving someone through it, or anyone who's ever stayed quiet when they wish they'd known what to say.
[00:02:16] Emma Waddington: Sam's voice has been affected by MND Motor Neuron Disease It's difficult for him to speak and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to talk with us. Welcome Sam. And welcome Ray.
[00:02:29] Emma Waddington: So
[00:02:29] Emma Waddington: wonderful to have you. I wanted perhaps to start with, you know, today we'll be talking about your diagnosis and you know, what, what it was like to have to get the diagnosis. And I was wondering, you know, obviously I saw you just before the diagnosis and I was thinking, you know, did you think that there was anything wrong before the diagnosis?
[00:02:51] Emma Waddington: Were you concerned. were You worried about symptoms? What was life like before you got diagnosed?[00:03:00]
[00:03:01] Sam Stroud: Yes. To be honest, Sam,
[00:03:02] Sam Stroud: I
[00:03:03] Sam Stroud: didn't actually think
[00:03:04] Sam Stroud: anything was
[00:03:05] Sam Stroud: wrong. because, um, I mean when I presented at last Smell, my life was more or less fine and like some
[00:03:15] Sam Stroud: searing in my voice or nasal snee, some weakness in my hand, but
[00:03:21] Sam Stroud: to one ing me that much, I've been a few months angry man and thought, alright, it's time to checked out. but I know, So idea
[00:03:36] Sam Stroud: on what was uh, coming. Right.
[00:03:39] Sam Stroud: Um,
[00:03:40] Sam Stroud: so no, not
[00:03:41] Sam Stroud: really.
[00:03:42] Sam Stroud: when I, when I have those two symptoms, all and then fuel, you know, changes in screens and
[00:03:49] Sam Stroud: weakness
[00:03:50] Sam Stroud: in arm, Just in case they were related and Aless m and D came up four,
[00:03:58] Sam Stroud: that
[00:03:58] Sam Stroud: and no way.
[00:03:59] Sam Stroud: not [00:04:00] gonna be Right. rare neurological disease that affects people generally older than me. So I was on the radar.
[00:04:09] Sam Stroud: that
[00:04:09] Sam Stroud: much, told myself don't worry about that. I said like, So we didn't come in there. quite a big shock when I
[00:04:17] Sam Stroud: talking about,
[00:04:18] Emma Waddington: Yeah, I I can just imagine.
[00:04:20] Emma Waddington: I
[00:04:20] Emma Waddington: mean, I remember 'cause we saw each other obviously that summer and I remember talking to you and
[00:04:27] Emma Waddington: you
[00:04:27] Emma Waddington: know, talking about those two symptoms, your, your weakness and you know, some of the nasal, I remember that we thought it was something in your sinuses.
[00:04:39] Emma Waddington: Um, and. never,
[00:04:42] Emma Waddington: never did we think it was in any way related.
[00:04:45] Emma Waddington: And certainly I never thought, you know, it could be a LS and
[00:04:49] Emma Waddington: you know I, I, I also remember the day you got diagnosed, you know, obviously we were here in Singapore. And I think it's important, you know, to [00:05:00] to, for our listeners and if it's helpful for others to talk about, you know, what was that?
[00:05:05] Emma Waddington: I just can't imagine what that moment was like for you and Nana. Could you share what that was like?
[00:05:12] Sam Stroud: Yeah, I mean I think it must be different from different from different people knew from my meeting. Some people I
[00:05:19] Sam Stroud: missed
[00:05:20] Sam Stroud: long drawn out process when things are getting worse and worse,
[00:05:24] Emma Waddington: Hmm.
[00:05:25] Sam Stroud: they I, no one, I'm just saying something bad is on their horizon. And then other people like me turn out not really worrying about him, they get
[00:05:36] Sam Stroud: me bit of a kick in the kicking the teeth. But the, the mum itself, I mean,
[00:05:42] Sam Stroud: went
[00:05:42] Sam Stroud: into the hospital, you had three
[00:05:44] Sam Stroud: of the doctors were treating that as more serious than I expected. So I was met nervous sitting there overnight. and then they
[00:05:56] Sam Stroud: they were gonna have a
[00:05:58] Sam Stroud: watching this for
[00:05:59] Sam Stroud: doing me [00:06:00] with the a neurologist in the afternoon. And, uh, They call my partner Anna, uh, task you to
[00:06:07] Sam Stroud: come to the appointment.
[00:06:08] Sam Stroud: with my finger. At that moment, I knew it was, I long
[00:06:12] Sam Stroud: news. Sat down and neurologist.
[00:06:16] Sam Stroud: this
[00:06:16] Sam Stroud: thing he said was, yeah, unfortunately it's not good news.
[00:06:20] Sam Stroud: And yeah,
[00:06:22] Sam Stroud: for that moment, um, knew it well. It was, clear it was
[00:06:27] Sam Stroud: m and here. and then went through all the permutation, information of
[00:06:31] Sam Stroud: me. tumor, illness, no treatment.
[00:06:35] Sam Stroud: Or
[00:06:36] Sam Stroud: rather they there is a treatment, and they sends life like two to three months, which in some ways is worse than no treatment at all because delay act that when he throws some, the AMI of the illness. almost. so yeah, I remember my fear very much. fire, [00:07:00] fire
[00:07:00] Emma Waddington: Yeah, of course.
[00:07:01] Sam Stroud: but I mean, I think it was, yeah, as I say, it was a fire nor
[00:07:06] Sam Stroud: to my hundred
[00:07:07] Sam Stroud: experience of not me in that apartment name, Antonio, the few years left to live.
[00:07:15] Emma Waddington: it was quite unbelievable. I remember it very well 'cause it was Wednesday to Thursday. I remember 'cause we're ahead here. And, yeah, it felt incredibly unbelievable, the whole process. I remember you going in for the assessment and it was very quick because it was within 24 hours, wasn't it? Not even.
[00:07:36] Sam Stroud: Yeah, I
[00:07:37] Sam Stroud: mean.
[00:07:37] Sam Stroud: it's more, It's weird to say but I didn't
[00:07:40] Sam Stroud: look out with how fast it was. I mean, I think
[00:07:44] Sam Stroud: most people, you
[00:07:45] Sam Stroud: go from that contracting process and often talking come out that me and one the hardest fit. So sensing to me is wrong No having to wait I waiting to [00:08:00] confirmation. So they really, uh, With the mandate in my case, went actually, it's definitely a better way of having it
[00:08:09] Sam Stroud: Lucky
[00:08:09] Sam Stroud: way of having it. I mean, it wa and it was, um, first for me, and she say, unbelievable because I felt in myself physically find virus
[00:08:21] Sam Stroud: was me. and to that what was coming
[00:08:24] Sam Stroud: was
[00:08:25] Sam Stroud: a lot harder. And the process since then been very
[00:08:29] Sam Stroud: much like this period of. I'm again, the news, wrong, I'm
[00:08:34] Sam Stroud: believing it, for not feeling it. And then as the condition progressive. Alright. yeah, yeah, okay.
[00:08:41] Sam Stroud: I definitely do have a empty, but I'm very but I'm very thankful I'm not still sitting here waiting for an
[00:08:49] Sam Stroud: RI scan
[00:08:50] Sam Stroud: to confirm what
[00:08:52] Sam Stroud: I now know it to. So
[00:08:54] Sam Stroud: I didn't get lucky with
[00:08:56] Sam Stroud: it to have.
[00:08:57] Sam Stroud: Diagnose something and, [00:09:00] um. maybe one from the top
[00:09:02] Sam Stroud: there.
[00:09:02] Emma Waddington: And in those, those, you know, those first few days and, weeks, did you do? I know, you know, you and Anna really were incredible. You activated a lot of support and, you know, spoke to lots of people. what was that like?
[00:09:21] Sam Stroud: I mean, the, the first thing we then, after the diagnosis far belongings were downstairs and. and no to my son was our, I was on the hospital and then we went and had a find. That was nice. Uh, Uh, but from there, I mean the, one of the neurologist I was, I saw shortly after the appointment at Osbo, I was asking them for,
[00:09:52] Sam Stroud: you know,
[00:09:52] Sam Stroud: gimme something, anything positive to sort
[00:09:56] Sam Stroud: of
[00:09:56] Sam Stroud: orient myself around
[00:09:58] Sam Stroud: some kind of [00:10:00] help. And it was talking about, you know, lots of research going on. it, talking about things that people do win the m and d and patient new turn a
[00:10:13] Sam Stroud: half marathon, which I believe
[00:10:15] Sam Stroud: I thought
[00:10:16] Sam Stroud: I, if anything
[00:10:18] Sam Stroud: things
[00:10:18] Sam Stroud: seems not have do I have my
[00:10:21] Sam Stroud: husband? It haven't happened.
[00:10:23] Sam Stroud: animal.
[00:10:24] Sam Stroud: But
[00:10:24] Sam Stroud: If
[00:10:25] Sam Stroud: anything it
[00:10:25] Sam Stroud: said was, it's really important and I keep on engaging with life. Right. It stay engaged. Um, and we didn't, I mean we just carried on with the everything we had planned for the weekend. We did a,
[00:10:44] Sam Stroud: went to a football match, went to a museum, Edmonton
[00:10:50] Sam Stroud: man worth
[00:10:51] Sam Stroud: in the afternoon, which seems man for that kind of continuing on in life. Um, and I signed on [00:11:00] that. For me, we continued that way. Obviously, as you mentioned,
[00:11:05] Sam Stroud: Alan was
[00:11:06] Sam Stroud: brilliant
[00:11:06] Sam Stroud: terms of
[00:11:07] Sam Stroud: letting people know and. Um, having evidence of all the support that we can rely on this summer, so on. Then the main thing, worked for us was just uh, to keep on going.
[00:11:22] Sam Stroud: I
[00:11:22] Sam Stroud: think as from the very first thing sort mean a, even with the diagnosis there, it was perfectly possible to have an experience experiencing joy and a happyness and moments and
[00:11:41] Sam Stroud: contentment
[00:11:42] Sam Stroud: from the get
[00:11:43] Sam Stroud: and go. And I think that has some ness, well
[00:11:47] Sam Stroud: so
[00:11:48] Sam Stroud: far anyway.
[00:11:49] Emma Waddington: I've been in awe of that with you, and that's been a big lesson for me that I, you know, have seen you and Anna. Life does go on, and you've been incredibly good at [00:12:00] that. you've continued, like you said, to go to the football matches and, you've continued to embrace the, the normality of the day to day, which is quite incredible, I think, I could see how you could get really quite frozen and stuck.
[00:12:13] Sam Stroud: Yeah. I mean, I think that is what that neurologist meant by keep on engaging with life. Not no, I was doing it because he had recommended that, but I can see how
[00:12:26] Sam Stroud: safe that advice is.
[00:12:27] Sam Stroud: advice is.
[00:12:28] Emma Waddington: Mm. Yeah. Just keep the purpose going.
[00:12:32] Emma Waddington: Is that what you've seen, Ray as well? Is is that what you've recommended in these early stages?
[00:12:39] Ray Owen: I think what, what Sam you've been describing and what your neurologist said to you,
[00:12:45] Ray Owen: you
[00:12:45] Ray Owen: know, clearly is how we would hope people can manage to be.
[00:12:51] Emma Waddington: Mm.
[00:12:52] Ray Owen: it's, it's a bigger, it's, it's, a bigger reach for some people.
[00:12:56] Ray Owen: Um, and that.
[00:12:58] Ray Owen: Sometimes is kind of [00:13:00] part of the work that's ongoing. Your neurologist had clearly seen a lot of people have that experience, and, and that's one of the vital bits, isn't it, is having some contact with people who are just familiar, not just with the cells and the neurons and the medications or whatever, but just the lives of people, uh, with any, any given condition because otherwise.
[00:13:24] Ray Owen: like
[00:13:24] Ray Owen: The diagnosis is the biggest thing in the room, and it's the only thing in the
[00:13:28] Emma Waddington: Yeah.
[00:13:28] Ray Owen: And what you want is people who recognize the significance and the severity of it, and simultaneously recognize that and there is a match tomorrow. You know, what would be the reason for not going to the match tomorrow? and this'll be the make at some point
[00:13:42] Ray Owen: at a
[00:13:42] Ray Owen: time when you can't, but that
[00:13:44] Ray Owen: day
[00:13:44] Ray Owen: is not today. So if we are saying go do all these things because somehow it's a distraction, well even that will be cool. That will be fine. what I'm hearing from from you, Sam, is that it's, um, no, it's 'cause this is what my life's made up of. and I'm here today. I can [00:14:00] do this today and I can do this tomorrow. And I may need to find slightly different ways of doing stuff at some point. And here we go with that. So long, long answer to your concise question, Emma, but then, you know, psychologist, that's inevitable. yes. I think that is what people move towards and sometimes it's a bigger ask for a variety of
[00:14:18] Ray Owen: reasons.
[00:14:19] Sam Stroud: Uh, I wouldn't say no. also having a, at time, eight months old
[00:14:24] Sam Stroud: made me
[00:14:25] Sam Stroud: help with because with eight
[00:14:29] Sam Stroud: old life life carrying on you,
[00:14:34] Ray Owen: Yeah.
[00:14:35] Sam Stroud: you know, keeps you
[00:14:37] Sam Stroud: Feminine. and of course brings a lot of.
[00:14:43] Emma Waddington: that's so
[00:14:44] Emma Waddington: true.
[00:14:45] Ray Owen: Yes. They're very much of the present moment, aren't they? Small children. Uh, and uh, and, and that removes the option of being completely in our heads and completely in the future, inevitable as it is that some of our time are in our heads and some of our time are in the [00:15:00] future.
[00:15:00] Emma Waddington: And you can get caught up, stuck in, you know, the diagnosis being the biggest thing because it is such a big thing and having your little man who is just simply
[00:15:11] Emma Waddington: divine, we are all a big fan of him, is almost calling you into the presence, you know, and just wanting to have the fullest life with him. I was just wondering, I
[00:15:22] Emma Waddington: think, you know, like. Ray said it takes skill. I think this ability to put one foot in front of the other, to be in the moment for life to go on, like your neurologist said is, sounds like a great idea, but in, in practice can be very hard and and I'm just wondering what is helping you to do that?
[00:15:43] Emma Waddington: 'cause it is very skillful. Can see how easily we could, not be doing that.
[00:15:48] Sam Stroud: Yeah, I mean, I, I wish I had a clear answer to Um, Tim of
[00:15:55] Sam Stroud: more, some
[00:15:55] Sam Stroud: me, I am from reading about, [00:16:00] um, basic testimonies or
[00:16:03] Sam Stroud: experiences of people living with
[00:16:06] Sam Stroud: m
[00:16:06] Sam Stroud: and GA and still living rich, fulfilling life. Sometimes in circumstances when they can't me, they can't move.
[00:16:18] Sam Stroud: but they clean, they
[00:16:19] Sam Stroud: still getting a lot out
[00:16:21] Sam Stroud: of life and giving a lot of fat. Um, that for me has been probably one of the most motivating things.
[00:16:30] Sam Stroud: I,
[00:16:31] Sam Stroud: I think now that it's not really through sort of formal channels like IM and TA, the main UK channel.
[00:16:42] Sam Stroud: They
[00:16:43] Sam Stroud: have some case studies, which,
[00:16:46] Sam Stroud: are here,
[00:16:47] Sam Stroud: but not many
[00:16:48] Sam Stroud: to me. Honest. honest. Mainly it's been through reading online forum. Also,
[00:16:55] Sam Stroud: I mean, ran on the MNTA forum
[00:16:58] Sam Stroud: where
[00:16:59] Sam Stroud: it's [00:17:00] making a huge accumulation of testimonies. Many of them. many of them understand be quite bleak. People are struggling a lot,
[00:17:11] Sam Stroud: many
[00:17:11] Sam Stroud: amongst that you do mean
[00:17:14] Sam Stroud: on people who
[00:17:16] Sam Stroud: are mean just so impressive and inspiring. Purely if you training advice on the forum, people mean hand illness for a long time or even not that long, but I mean feeling things
[00:17:32] Sam Stroud: vary from grass, but clearly mentally, are living, you know, happy and full lives.
[00:17:39] Sam Stroud: And I think
[00:17:40] Sam Stroud: showering
[00:17:40] Sam Stroud: through those forum for those testimonies reminders that that is possible. Um,
[00:17:48] Sam Stroud: for
[00:17:48] Sam Stroud: me, I
[00:17:49] Sam Stroud: found that yeah, very handsome.
[00:17:51] Sam Stroud: Very handsome.
[00:17:52] Emma Waddington: Yeah.
[00:17:53] Ray Owen: could, could I sort of chip in there that I think it's that fact that it's a first [00:18:00] person account
[00:18:00] Ray Owen: of
[00:18:01] Ray Owen: people talking about their experience. Because one thing we see with all sorts of health conditions, particularly like deteriorating ones, you know, ones we're unfortunately we're not just gonna get better, is when we are relatively healthy. If we look forward to stage where we have some sort of limitation from standing in our healthy shoes that can look insurmountable,
[00:18:23] Ray Owen: it's be, I can't cope with my voice having changed that, will be unthinkable until you. Hear from somebody whose voice has changed. Say, well, yeah, but I'm still getting on with life.
[00:18:34] Ray Owen: I'm still doing this. This is a pain, but I can do this. So this kind of projecting forward to what's manageable, what's a life worth. Living is very imprecise from the moment you are in. Whereas if you can kind of leap forward a little and see some examples of other people actually living their lives in the presence of those things, it kind of corrects that sort of, sort of more [00:19:00] bleak prediction that that human minds are so capable of doing.
[00:19:03] Sam Stroud: Yeah, it's
[00:19:04] Sam Stroud: Not
[00:19:04] Sam Stroud: finding models for living well with a a LS or m and t.
[00:19:10] Sam Stroud: She
[00:19:10] Sam Stroud: You can find also to happen for people having a marry Valentine, but there are also people, have good time interest knowing that there
[00:19:20] Sam Stroud: are, there is the possibility of having a full life of them. And
[00:19:26] Sam Stroud: even though as far from
[00:19:29] Sam Stroud: having
[00:19:29] Sam Stroud: seen that helps
[00:19:31] Sam Stroud: on It something to home for and smoke to.
[00:19:34] Chris McCurry: I think that's also true for so many situations where, over the decades I've worked with many families where the child gets an autism diagnosis or I spent enough time working in, you know, children's hospital in Seattle where all kinds of conditions, you know, leukemias and whatever, uh, show up in the life of a family that they [00:20:00] weren't expecting. from that. Healthy position. As you say, Ray, you know, you think about these things. You say, how would I ever, you know, I don't know how I would cope with that. then when you are in that situation, you, you do cope with it. Maybe not perfectly well, but most people step up and, uh, they rise to the challenge.
[00:20:19] Chris McCurry: Uh, even though from that healthy perspective, you just can't imagine, you know, I think that's because we tend to have this all or none way of thinking about life. Like, this is either gonna be a total disaster or it's gonna be perfectly fine. And the life, of course, always in the messy middle. but I think a lot of, a lot of situations call upon us to, you know, there's a Chinese saying, be equal to your fate. which I often think about, uh, where, okay, this is what life has handed me. Whether it's the flat tire on the way to a.
[00:20:49] Chris McCurry: You know, a job interview or some truly life changing experience. we gotta step up and, uh, and more often than [00:21:00] not, we do. And that's, I think that's what's so marvelous about being human.
[00:21:04] Emma Waddington: I, I love this. It's, it's inspiring and I do think that for many people it's incredibly hard to step up though. And I, sometimes wonder about.
[00:21:13] Emma Waddington: you know,
[00:21:14] Emma Waddington: What helps us to step up than others not to, you know, it's almost like some people have a more pessimistic outlook.
[00:21:20] Emma Waddington: Like
[00:21:21] Emma Waddington: just listening to you, Sam, and you know, you doing the incredibly brave thing of looking into life with MND and all the stages. I think it's very brave
[00:21:31] Emma Waddington: because
[00:21:32] Emma Waddington: you just don't know initially what you're gonna find.
[00:21:35] Emma Waddington: and actually searching for the things that are more positive. ' that's what we call in, in sort of, um, in acceptance and commitment therapy, which is the model that, those of us, those, those clinicians in the room use. and the concept is called psychological flexibility, this ability to be quite nimble. when we are presented with different thoughts and feelings and, you know, in spite [00:22:00] of some of these challenging emotions and, life experiences, we can still move in ways that are useful.
[00:22:06] Emma Waddington: and I think that's what you're demonstrating this real ability to be psychologically nimble or psychologically flexible
[00:22:13] Emma Waddington: and,
[00:22:13] Emma Waddington: and not to be underestimated basically. I think it's, it's simply marvelous and
[00:22:19] Emma Waddington: I'm
[00:22:19] Emma Waddington: so glad that. That you have that skill, and I wonder if you always had it and that that's, that's an ability that you have been able to bring to this, condition that, would understandably drown you.
[00:22:31] Emma Waddington: were many
[00:22:32] Sam Stroud: thanks Simon. That is funny enough, that is what my own psychologist so I'm glad you guys are in the grievance.
[00:22:45] Emma Waddington: You have all of our stamps and many, many years together.
[00:22:49] Emma Waddington: Almost
[00:22:50] Emma Waddington: probably at least half a century of experience in this room. We all concur with your psychologist. I.
[00:22:57] Ray Owen: I think one thing that [00:23:00] strikes me as we talk about this, Emma and, Is, you know, it, it, it, it isn't easy. It, there isn't, I don't think there is a simple recipe for handling big life changes. Well, it depends so much on the path we've walked throughout our entire life, what circumstances we find ourselves in, as Sam was saying, like how much, how much warning, you know, because psychologically you've had one of the challenge, one of the kind of challenging presentations have been relatively well at the point you hear this piece of information that seems like a much
[00:23:31] Ray Owen: bigger piece of information than your physical discomfort at that point. Whereas of course, some people have been banging on doors trying to get a diagnosis for years, and you get this very, um, you know, first hearing. Very odd reaction sometimes of relief even with a serious diagnosis at, at last. There's a coherent explanation. Things make sense.
[00:23:57] Ray Owen: I'm not imagin it and people don't think I'm imagining it,[00:24:00]
[00:24:00] Ray Owen: you
[00:24:00] Ray Owen: know, so, so the kind of, the path that people walk up to this point with shapes a lot of stuff, and also things that have worked for people in the past.
[00:24:11] Ray Owen: You know, we, we are all kind of very good, I think, at looking back at people's past and saying, well, what's worked for you in times of difficulty before? And one
[00:24:18] Ray Owen: thing we do know is that certain approaches to handling everyday life don't really match the scale of this. So, for instance, there's a, you know, you, you, you were wondering, uh, about whether there was a, sort in, in Sam, a disposition that helped, that particularly helped him.
[00:24:35] Ray Owen: And, and different people have different approaches to diversity. One of the ones that's quite common, I wonder whether it's particularly common in England, is what we sometimes call protective pessimism. So that's the attitude that says, I'll kind of expect the worst. Then if anything's better than that, it's a bonus. Okay? And some of those who follow [00:25:00] sports, it's the only way of making it through a season. I just expect my team to awfully badly. And then when they get the occasional win, it'll feel all
[00:25:07] Ray Owen: better. But everyday small things, that's quite a good strategy. But when we encounter something as big as a serious, diagnosis like m and d, it turns out that being protectively, pessimistic, just expecting the worst, makes it much harder to cope. Um,
[00:25:21] Ray Owen: Um,
[00:25:21] Ray Owen: so something that's worked for you before in other contexts doesn't necessarily work for you in this.
[00:25:25] Ray Owen: one.
[00:25:25] Sam Stroud: I wouldn't, I think on May 74. also got the benefit of feeling well,
[00:25:34] Sam Stroud: falling
[00:25:34] Sam Stroud: my thumb. It's very flying small. My economic physician secure my family and my friends, you know, American film with H it. So I have a lot of, like, I'm coming from a very strong base, if I Mm.
[00:25:52] Emma Waddington: Mm going
[00:25:53] Sam Stroud: through a hard time on any one of those funds, in my opinion, well, and from would've
[00:25:59] Sam Stroud: been [00:26:00] a lot harder think on board. It's coming
[00:26:04] Sam Stroud: From
[00:26:04] Sam Stroud: a, a lot of
[00:26:06] Sam Stroud: happiness and
[00:26:07] Sam Stroud: contender makes sending him me more of a buffer.
[00:26:12] Emma Waddington: Yeah. But perhaps that your natural disposition already. Right. I think, and that does help.
[00:26:20] Emma Waddington: I'm
[00:26:20] Emma Waddington: wondering, is there, I think the sense of purpose feels really important. Um, and coming from the sort of acceptance and commitment therapy sort of lens, that we sort of, we sort of often use, you know, understanding what is important and use that to guide us
[00:26:39] Emma Waddington: on
[00:26:39] Emma Waddington: a day-to-day life like, it feels like it's been a real anchor for you and that would make a lot of sense.
[00:26:46] Emma Waddington: Is there any other thoughts about, you what advice you would've liked to have had in those early days that you can give to somebody else who's sort of been
[00:26:55] Emma Waddington: thrust or kicked in the teeth like you said.
[00:26:58] Sam Stroud: I mean on the point, [00:27:00] yeah, I mean I'm, again, I think having a very young child So I'm clarifies, that wants uh, point and the rest of my life wanted to be as so I'm present and not sound good, but as Positive or possible
[00:27:19] Sam Stroud: to create as
[00:27:19] Sam Stroud: soon a child for my son as possible. So it clarifies things in that sense, certainly. Um, anything else that I would find, some I found new song, This very
[00:27:37] Sam Stroud: invasive Tim,
[00:27:38] Sam Stroud: I haven't really enjoyed meditate over the last
[00:27:42] Sam Stroud: few months.
[00:27:43] Sam Stroud: Never done
[00:27:43] Sam Stroud: it before,
[00:27:45] Sam Stroud: Never went anywhere
[00:27:46] Sam Stroud: near
[00:27:47] Sam Stroud: to be honest, but
[00:27:49] Sam Stroud: I can't remember where I came across in the idea, first signed there.
[00:27:54] Sam Stroud: And
[00:27:55] Sam Stroud: what I like about medicine is in relation to [00:28:00] Well, my physical technicians. I'm getting worse and worse every time I do something.
[00:28:07] Sam Stroud: you know,
[00:28:08] Sam Stroud: girlfriend run or whatever. I'm saying a new personal worse every time, right? So that's getting worse. However, with meditate, and it's something that I can know impediment from my teeth, I can like
[00:28:26] Sam Stroud: get
[00:28:26] Sam Stroud: very very, can sell.
[00:28:29] Sam Stroud: In fact, from the benefit
[00:28:31] Sam Stroud: because it's harder for me to move, which is give the vegetation. So I mean, I, I found that something I can, you know, sink my teeth into and yeah, moving here now has been nice. And more for me. I'm
[00:28:47] Sam Stroud: enjoying just swimming, expanding my mental space for that. So yeah, I'm benefiting from that. and there was one point that related to that, that [00:29:00] there's a
[00:29:01] Sam Stroud: adult neurologist in America
[00:29:04] Sam Stroud: quite,
[00:29:05] Sam Stroud: FLA point crime, but I think he has a lot of, um, insulin, A news named
[00:29:12] Sam Stroud: doctor,
[00:29:14] Sam Stroud: French.
[00:29:15] Sam Stroud: which,
[00:29:16] Sam Stroud: And he has some point, naming. European is not, I
[00:29:22] Sam Stroud: might turn negative
[00:29:25] Sam Stroud: impact, your
[00:29:26] Sam Stroud: physical
[00:29:27] Sam Stroud: ability, funny and all that, but it
[00:29:31] Sam Stroud: doesn't
[00:29:31] Sam Stroud: have to negatively impact or turn and can even enhance The things about even that are.
[00:29:40] Sam Stroud: Most important are most
[00:29:42] Sam Stroud: you some things
[00:29:44] Sam Stroud: like your sense humor. You find a eternal compassion.
[00:29:49] Sam Stroud: You are seeing all those things
[00:29:52] Sam Stroud: don
[00:29:52] Sam Stroud: have to be hidden in the slightest way and the.
[00:29:56] Sam Stroud: the even being in the hands and the idea [00:30:00] That actually
[00:30:00] Emma Waddington: Mm.
[00:30:01] Sam Stroud: continue to show to manage in a positive way four parts of yourself is also fight, I idea fight, um, of lifting.
[00:30:14] Emma Waddington: I'm finding this conversation quite uplifting in a way that I didn't expect it to be It's like, you're inspiring Sam. I, you know, I, I live my day and I don't think about, you know, how to, you know, enhance my experiences and, you know, how to, feel more, you know, get more humor or, you know, sharpen my focus.
[00:30:42] Emma Waddington: And, it's
[00:30:43] Emma Waddington: tickled me in a way to hear this. And, was already in awe of you and I'm now even more so. I think this is really, astonishing and I do think you have a fantastic sense of humor. we went on a, run, over Christmas and, Sam Anna [00:31:00] my sister and I are raising money for m and d, and so I. we're trying to run religiously. and so Sam came along with us and it was so sweet watching you run. And you know, I think you mentioned that you thought you probably looked a little bit like an ogre because of the way you were moving your arms.
[00:31:20] Emma Waddington: And I it just warmed my heart., but I thought what you said was also adorable and that you were running, and you did it. You ran, I think at one point did faster than me and Anna, can I say? But anyway, by the bye.
[00:31:34] Emma Waddington: Sam, I think you're doing a tremendous job, and I love what you're saying about meditating. Now I feel like I should start meditating. Of course. I'm gonna get this, experience too. And you're absolutely right. Like the mind isn't gonna go anywhere.
[00:31:48] Sam Stroud: Yeah, I think I would've always liked men, but without a Tim
[00:31:52] Sam Stroud: diagnosis, I
[00:31:54] Sam Stroud: wouldn't never problem. So
[00:31:57] Emma Waddington: Yeah,
[00:31:58] Sam Stroud: similar.
[00:31:59] Emma Waddington: [00:32:00] Do you find that Ray, with, others with chronic and terminal illness,
[00:32:03] Emma Waddington: is meditating
[00:32:04] Emma Waddington: something that's quite common?
[00:32:06] Ray Owen: I think it's, I think it certainly can be. there's, you know, there's lots of, look, people, cultures throughout the world have known that variations on what we might today call meditation have seemed to do people good, like throughout human history. So it's no new
[00:32:22] Ray Owen: discovery
[00:32:22] Ray Owen: is it? and. The fact that in what we might call Western healthcare, we've got somewhat clearer about the benefits in the last 30 or 40 years, uh, means that at, at least that the encouragement into it can come through that channel as well as through more traditional cultural and, and, and, and faith-based approaches. I like what you said, Sam, logically were amenable to it anyway. I think lots of people are, lots of people kind of get it, but we live these kind of lives where, you know, there's never quite time for it. and it takes something that makes us think, [00:33:00] hang on, I've gotta do something here. Uh, that makes us sort of begin to consistently do a thing meditation in this case, um, that we might never otherwise have done. And then enjoy the benefits that you are, that you are enjoying and. I don't know what your meditation experiences are like, Sam, you know, I think, you know, we should also point out that very often, you know, it's not all whale music and sunshine and puppies and I feel great through doing this.
[00:33:28] Ray Owen: You know, sometimes meditation brings us face to face with our pain. learning to make room for that within meditation could be such a benefit for making room for it in, in other places in our life.
[00:33:39] Emma Waddington: It's like a skill really that you are building that is useful outside of, I mean, we talk about it a lot with a lot of our clients and I certainly try to meditate many, many times. And, um, like you say, Ray, we just don't find time. Isn't it incredible? It reminds me, we had a conversation, couple of months ago [00:34:00] with, Robert Walla and, man O'Connell, and we talked about living with death and how
[00:34:08] Emma Waddington: obviously they didn't share about it having a terminal illness as far as I know, but they talked about how it's, being
[00:34:14] Emma Waddington: reminded about our mortality is a form of meditation. and they use it in the Buddhist tradition as a way to awaken us this moment.
[00:34:24] Sam Stroud: Yeah, certainly helps, sharpen my
[00:34:28] Sam Stroud: uh,
[00:34:28] Sam Stroud: priorities and life, spend that getting. getting annoyed with my stuff that previously with the well me up.
[00:34:35] Emma Waddington: Wow. As we were preparing for this conversation, I was thinking about what is it like to be,
[00:34:41] Emma Waddington: you know, with friends and family? I mean, I can imagine that often people don't wanna talk about your diagnosis, but they don't know what to say. I, I work with a few people who, have,
[00:34:52] Emma Waddington: Terrible illnesses or have had a terrible loss, or whose children are very ill and they find themselves feeling really [00:35:00] lonely because
[00:35:00] Emma Waddington: people don't want to talk about their pain or their sadness, or it feels like they're a burden to others and they can start to isolate.
[00:35:08] Emma Waddington: But I know that that you, obviously you haven't and you're here talking to us and, have you found that, how have you navigated that?
[00:35:14] Emma Waddington: that?
[00:35:15] Sam Stroud: Yeah, absolute. I think in Fast and Forward, pretty much everybody has been
[00:35:23] Sam Stroud: a
[00:35:23] Sam Stroud: main thing about it. It might not be like all you want is to
[00:35:28] Sam Stroud: be able to
[00:35:29] Sam Stroud: discuss information as and when, but
[00:35:32] Sam Stroud: each
[00:35:33] Sam Stroud: is far a normal conversation, not having. I'm in
[00:35:38] Sam Stroud: conversation getting the inter long consent to
[00:35:43] Sam Stroud: think on a different, you know, mannerism, turn points and whatever. He just wanted me free to talk about it it and then come in the
[00:35:52] Sam Stroud: conversation onto something else. You know? And from my experience, I mean, for [00:36:00] long people, I new, if they don't have that
[00:36:03] Sam Stroud: Experience too, so it try to move somebody with a terminal illness or punishing death,
[00:36:10] Sam Stroud: but even if it's so unfamiliar to them, again, from my experience, people just pick it up.
[00:36:18] Sam Stroud: I mean, I'm, I haven't, really like, caught to, with, and people not responding right way or not saying the
[00:36:27] Sam Stroud: right
[00:36:27] Sam Stroud: thing.
[00:36:29] Sam Stroud: Not lucky enough that pretty much ation mean. been fantastic in that, allowing those conversations to have but not
[00:36:39] Sam Stroud: there and then sort of
[00:36:40] Sam Stroud: dominate your
[00:36:41] Sam Stroud: interaction. so Yeah.
[00:36:44] Sam Stroud: again, I think um, I mean, I mean lucky, I think overall it always, uh, if somebody does seem a mean for out or uncomfortable or whatever, it's always, it's gonna, it's gonna make me, because
[00:36:59] Sam Stroud: [00:37:00] they
[00:37:00] Sam Stroud: have no experience from fracture. So
[00:37:03] Sam Stroud: I'm talking
[00:37:04] Sam Stroud: to somebody who's
[00:37:05] Sam Stroud: well
[00:37:05] Sam Stroud: into illness and
[00:37:07] Sam Stroud: I'm sure
[00:37:08] Sam Stroud: that they, when they have, that, because things easily, and, uh,
[00:37:13] Sam Stroud: over time
[00:37:14] Emma Waddington: Yeah. You're very compassionate
[00:37:17] Emma Waddington: towards others. I think the fact that you feel quite comfortable.
[00:37:21] Sam Stroud: I mean, you know your faith when you illness.
[00:37:25] Sam Stroud: Anyway, life.
[00:37:31] Emma Waddington: Oh, that's so sweet. Do you find that, Ray, that that people do feel quite lonely and that I think you're very skillful because you make people feel very comfortable talking.
[00:37:44] Ray Owen: Yeah,
[00:37:45] Ray Owen: I mean,
[00:37:45] Ray Owen: again,
[00:37:46] Emma Waddington: we are.
[00:37:46] Emma Waddington: here today.
[00:37:47] Ray Owen: yeah. Again, you know, it, it's that interaction with the individual and the, and the situation, isn't it, you know, different individuals may respond in a different way and the people that are around may be responding [00:38:00] differently. So it's kind of hard to say. Yeah. You know, there is, there is this one way kind of, which is, which is Right. Um, you know, some, some, as you were saying, you know, you know, the thing is we don't really know what's going on inside other people's heads and, you know, sometimes the person who isn't willing to, or
[00:38:19] Ray Owen: who
[00:38:20] Ray Owen: is kind of dodging the issue or even avoiding the person, you know, we can't upfront know what that is, you know, and we can't often know whether that's their past history of some bad experience in their past, or whether it's, you know, a belief that I'm gonna say the wrong thing and if I say the wrong thing, I can't unsay it. So it's safer not to say anything. You know, I think that's a kind of equation that a lot of people work by, and it does, it can lead to isolation and, and, and, and distance from people. I do think that exactly what you're, you seem to be modeling Sam, one, of the best ways is if the [00:39:00] person themself can take a little bit of a lead in, you know, being
[00:39:03] Ray Owen: sort of mentioning
[00:39:04] Ray Owen: it or being matter of fact and willing to move on to the everyday, I think people often fear that they're, by making any recognition of it, they're gonna be launched into a very deep conversation that they feel unequipped to have.
[00:39:20] Ray Owen: And
[00:39:20] Ray Owen: I think when people sort of model the, the balance of, yeah, this is what's going on for me. And you know what, it was a real pain yesterday when, you know, and it's something fairly every day. People realize quickly that they can cope with that. so the person who's ill taking a bit of a lead in what they need and how they wanna talk about it. Is often the best way.
[00:39:40] Emma Waddington: that makes sense.
[00:39:41] Emma Waddington: Is there anything that's been easier than you had imagined?
[00:39:44] Sam Stroud: yeah, I mean, in some ways when you end, so my my expectations are so low that, you know,
[00:39:53] Sam Stroud: I'm
[00:39:53] Sam Stroud: friendly out in ing where Pretty much
[00:39:56] Sam Stroud: everything on some level is a little bit easier [00:40:00] than your, so I means respond to it, where it's like the worst news you can get Away in, terms of my family's on. Um, but
[00:40:11] Sam Stroud: I'm
[00:40:12] Sam Stroud: been surprised by, I, I
[00:40:15] Sam Stroud: guess how
[00:40:16] Sam Stroud: I have some fun anyway,
[00:40:18] Sam Stroud: adapting
[00:40:19] Sam Stroud: into arms from them in life completely flow
[00:40:24] Sam Stroud: me.
[00:40:25] Sam Stroud: as one thing that's, um, that's been interesting prior to the diagnosis, if I, you're thinking about um, um, this fondant comes up, you find
[00:40:37] Sam Stroud: no one the time while trying this and that chemo, they'll let you time for maybe one or two months. I mean, going back to what Vince was saying earlier about or nothing
[00:40:51] Sam Stroud: pain time notice
[00:40:52] Sam Stroud: would be like, what's the point of a solution will only last from one to two
[00:40:59] Sam Stroud: It's not even
[00:40:59] Sam Stroud: [00:41:00] worth it.
[00:41:01] Sam Stroud: Oh,
[00:41:01] Sam Stroud: I mean, in the s on me
[00:41:04] Sam Stroud: when you and that something comes up, you like, oh, brilliant, I got time again for a little bit longer. You don't embrace it and you're not thinking about how time limit this. So I think Yeah, I been the, un believed to and terms to the change circumstances surprised me how the naturalness is,
[00:41:31] Sam Stroud: I painting too, rosy and painting too. IM and d
[00:41:36] Sam Stroud: on this form. Like obviously it is quite shit, but but at the same time, you know,
[00:41:43] Sam Stroud: it's not as, it's not as as bad so far as with him anticipating
[00:41:50] Sam Stroud: at the meeting and he caught
[00:41:52] Sam Stroud: me on.
[00:41:52] Sam Stroud: a good time tonight.
[00:41:55] Ray Owen: I
[00:41:56] Ray Owen: guess also that the, the bits that are rubbish will [00:42:00] present themselves very strongly to you. that you don't need to go looking for those, but actually the, the, the good stuff in the middle of it is worth actively paying attention to. And that's not natural to the
[00:42:11] Ray Owen: human mind. cause of the conditions of threat, we focus on the threat. So actually the fact that we are consciously focusing on some of the other aspects makes sense. 'cause the rubbish bits they'll take, you know, they'll present themselves very carefully. They don't need going, looking for, so, I think, although like, yeah, the time balance, would be focusing very much on the positives. I think it's, it's a very important thing to do.
[00:42:35] Sam Stroud: Yeah,
[00:42:36] Sam Stroud: I can I obviously spend all day walking along thing. I
[00:42:40] Sam Stroud: found you eggs, I
[00:42:42] Sam Stroud: found you. Why caning that?
[00:42:45] Sam Stroud: But and I, I,
[00:42:48] Sam Stroud: me between anything, because depending on your one cell in a particular day, you even focus on your limitation you focus on [00:43:00] what you still are able to do and enjoy. There is the, the last, is the entire emphasis around the right approach of it is being able to focus on the last
[00:43:15] Sam Stroud: term. what you are came from, from this feeling.
[00:43:19] Chris McCurry: I was just gonna say, as, as Emma referred to it earlier, that's a skill, to be able to shift your attention even in those, Situations where the negative is pulling on you. and with practice, that skill can get better.
[00:43:34] Emma Waddington: that's right. Great reminder but those of us that aren't that very, very good at it, let me, uh, put my hand to that, But I actually find myself often being more of the pessimistic. Maybe it's the British in me.
[00:43:49] Emma Waddington: I need to work on my optimism, Well, the Americans are right behind you in this.
[00:43:57] Chris McCurry: final thoughts.
[00:43:58] Emma Waddington: is there anything [00:44:00] else that, you know, we haven't asked about that feels important?
[00:44:03] Emma Waddington: Sam?
[00:44:04] Sam Stroud: no,
[00:44:05] Sam Stroud: The only
[00:44:05] Sam Stroud: thing I wanted, wanted to mention is
[00:44:08] Sam Stroud: just
[00:44:09] Sam Stroud: a point I'm
[00:44:11] Sam Stroud: and I'm waiting to feel my line. I think this is interesting. In terms of how fair
[00:44:17] Sam Stroud: professionals dealing with, um, MGA patients is there is a bit
[00:44:24] Sam Stroud: tension, I think between, on the one hand, 20 Sam to accept. and Sam, his
[00:44:32] Sam Stroud: femoral being sent the thigh fairly soon, is obviously important.
[00:44:39] Sam Stroud: On the other
[00:44:40] Sam Stroud: hand, it's also stress, the importance of having some hope as well. I think you hear that repeating well home for treatment coming along or what? What have you If home there. They understand it how pan out
[00:44:57] Sam Stroud: as
[00:44:57] Sam Stroud: it couldn do and I think [00:45:00] I'm from healthcare professional, I've had phone so to directing at me and I can see both are valuable, but they are in something I'm intention.
[00:45:12] Sam Stroud: Right.
[00:45:13] Sam Stroud: If
[00:45:13] Sam Stroud: you are
[00:45:15] Sam Stroud: focusing on the accepting you are impending death, how
[00:45:19] Sam Stroud: you
[00:45:19] Sam Stroud: swear that when Hoping for that not happening, if you know what I mean. So I don't have an answer or any particular insight on that, but but it's been a Spheal recurring theme in terms of how I've been thinking about the illness. Um, this, it just seems like, a tricky circle to swear.
[00:45:43] Emma Waddington: Do you have any thoughts? Right?
[00:45:45] Ray Owen: one way that I think some people think about this, and and,
[00:45:48] Ray Owen: and I
[00:45:48] Ray Owen: may have talked about this in the previous conversation on here,
[00:45:52] Ray Owen: is it, it,
[00:45:53] Ray Owen: can be a little
[00:45:54] Ray Owen: bit like being in a canoe, being carried down a river and,
[00:45:59] Ray Owen: [00:46:00] you know, we, we, we are trying to look ahead and, and we, you know, we are hoping that we can steer towards sort of the greenfields and the pleasant side. We're also aware that there's a sort of a less pleasant destination up ahead as well. and the thing is, we don't really get to control the way the currents are, even though we, um, you know, we, we try and paddle, we try and do the right, we try and do the right things, but to focus on just one or the other, probably not always that helpful, you know, to be able to do the,
[00:46:34] Ray Owen: I,
[00:46:35] Ray Owen: I really hope for this and I'm working towards this and as I suspect you have done some, you know, be, allow, you know, allowing yourself to let the other thoughts in enough to say, what do I need to do? If it is going, if the canoe is going that way, you know, what do I need to do? What do I need to do about, you know, sun and all this kind of stuff, in case that's where we're heading. And also maintaining, you say [00:47:00] help, um. What do I need to do in order to improve,
[00:47:05] Ray Owen: um,
[00:47:06] Ray Owen: symptomatically or treatment wise things in that way and not, not lose that bit of hope?
[00:47:10] Ray Owen: You know? So it's kinda like the both and isn't it? You know, you're absolutely right about the tension. but It's a dynamic tension in that it pulls both ways and can sometimes hit a kind of equilibrium.
[00:47:22] Emma Waddington: It's interesting, in another model that some of us use dialectical behavior therapy, we talk about, you know, the tension, the dialectic between acceptance and
[00:47:32] Emma Waddington: change.
[00:47:32] Emma Waddington: There is always a tension between what we need to accept and what we need to change, but without acceptance, there can be no change.
[00:47:40] Chris McCurry: Yeah, and if we replace change with control, it's the same thing.
[00:47:44] Emma Waddington: Yeah.
[00:47:45]
[00:47:45] Emma Waddington: What we can control and what we can't, as we're, we're having this conversation, it's bringing to mind so many of these sort of human processes, so many of the things that make us human.
[00:47:56] Emma Waddington: No matter what lives we're living,
[00:47:57] Emma Waddington: whether we're
[00:47:58] Emma Waddington: living, a life with a terminal [00:48:00] illness or not, we
[00:48:00] Emma Waddington: I think Sam, You are teaching me a lot about, You know, values and how to focus on what matters. You know, the very things most of us struggle to do on a day-to-day basis without a diagnosis.
[00:48:11] Emma Waddington: And it's the reminder that, you know, no matter what we're facing, yeah, the struggles can be quite similar in a way,
[00:48:18] Emma Waddington: which is very core to the model that we practice.
[00:48:21] Chris McCurry: Certainly
[00:48:22] Chris McCurry: our
[00:48:23] Chris McCurry: responses to these situations are similar, even if the situations themselves can be quite varied. And we
[00:48:30] Chris McCurry: can get into,
[00:48:31] Chris McCurry: you know.
[00:48:32] Chris McCurry: categorizing them in terms of, levels of difficulty or whatever. but for some people just getting up in the morning, it's, you know, a huge struggle. know, I've worked with people with mental health conditions that, you know, just getting up in the morning and tying your shoes can send them, you know, back to bed 'cause it's just too much. , I think there are a lot of commonalities in terms of how, how do we [00:49:00] approach what life is throwing at us? And, and it is, I think focusing on the moment
[00:49:06] Chris McCurry: that
[00:49:06] Chris McCurry: it's that tipping point. You know, what am I gonna pay attention to right here, right now? What's, you know, what's the direction I'm gonna choose right here, right now?
[00:49:15] Ray Owen: Just to echo something that's come. that's come through throughout and, and it's been said different ways at different stages that, all of our time is limited, you know, all of us face challenges. a diagnosis like this brings it into sharp focus and, and makes us choose and makes us do things in the way that, that, that Sam's doing. And some of those choices are things that we can learn from and
[00:49:42] Ray Owen: try and apply even if we're in the more luxurious position of possibly not being ill and possibly having further ahead to look at, as much as any of us ever know that.
[00:49:55] Emma Waddington: I've learned a lot I think I might go and sit on my meditation question. It's inviting [00:50:00] me.
[00:50:01] Chris McCurry: and I'm gonna hit my to-do list really hard.
[00:50:06] Emma Waddington: I'm sure there's plenty on it.
[00:50:09] Chris McCurry: Oh yeah.
[00:50:09] Chris McCurry: And, uh, much potential for avoidance.
[00:50:13] Chris McCurry: thank you Sam. Thank you so much. this is humbling
[00:50:17] Chris McCurry: and, uh, we really, really appreciate your willingness to come on and talk about all this stuff.
[00:50:22] Sam Stroud: I
[00:50:23] Sam Stroud: mean, I, I'm really enjoying the
[00:50:25] Sam Stroud: conversations and we have thanks.
[00:50:31] Emma Waddington: Oh,
[00:50:31] Emma Waddington: of course.
[00:50:32] Chris McCurry: thank you Ray. thank, thank you
[00:50:34] Chris McCurry: for the work you do.
[00:50:35] Chris McCurry: for the work you do.
[00:50:35] Ray Owen: Absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me
[00:50:37] Ray Owen: It's,
[00:50:37] Ray Owen: um, it's been great to, great to meet Sam.
[00:50:39] Emma Waddington: Yes. Really. Well, thank you all very much. All right, well be well. Thank you. Thank you.
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